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king of the world would not be the same

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two people laughed

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a few people cried

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I remembered the line from the Hindu

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Vishnu

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is trying to persuade the prince that

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he should do his duty and to impress him

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takes on his multi-armed form

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who says

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now I am become death

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I suppose we all thought that one way or

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another

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gentleman you see on the screen there on

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the cover of my book is of course J

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Robert Oppenheimer the cover sketches by

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my wife Molly

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um

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also she did an interior illustration

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that you will see at the end of this

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slideshow having to do with

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oppenheimer's favorite verse from the

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Hindu Bhagavad ghee test and she did an

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illustration for that and you will see

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that at the at the end

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we're going to talk about

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betrayal

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okay it's like it's a nasty thing you

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don't have to talk about something about

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this but as we say somebody's going to

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do it

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um

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even a national hero

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can be betrayed by the government he has

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served

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uh that's that's a that's a terrible

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comment on our national life I'm afraid

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but it's one that we have to make for

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the simple fact that's true

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you probably know Robert Oppenheimer as

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the driving force behind the development

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of the first atomic bomb uh

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that of course is a pretty familiar

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story uh however it was

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unfortunately a period of his life that

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was to be followed some Years Later by

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this basically storm clouds and

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um nasty things being being done to him

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and uh that's what we're going to talk

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about

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um

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there is Oppenheimer on the cover of

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Time Magazine the 8th of November 1948.

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uh basically at the end of the war and

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of course as you well know the bomb into

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the War uh World War II

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um he was a National Youth that was my

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question about it there had never been a

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national hero like that there has never

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been one sense there will never be one

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uh he was he was a unique kind of person

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it was a unique kind of circumstance uh

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and for somebody like this to get

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shafted the way he was uh it is a real

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real black mark on our whole history

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in the early 50s I don't have a a copy

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uh he was also a major player of a super

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secret government activity which has

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never been officially associated with

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him

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um and uh nothing you will ever hear any

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officials say anything about because I

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should know the government will give you

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every Assurance there's no such thing as

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a UFO

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um even though they very well know

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better at least they they better come

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better because they're not doing their

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jobs if they don't open her

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um

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he was involved in UFO crash retrievals

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we will demonstrate that and of course

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those never happen but uh

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um here's my hypothesis that this highly

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classified activity concerning uh

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basically UFO retrievals uh was his

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downfall of the reasons given you know

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essentially in a nutshell what happened

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to Oppenheimer is that in in December

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1953 he lost his security awareness

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um

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uh President Eisenhower pulled the

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Clarence actually sort of sort of

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suspended the clearance and told

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abenheimer he would have a chance to try

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to get it back they would have hearings

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at the atomic energy commission and he

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could actually kind of go through a

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trial sort of sort of thing and try to

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get his clearance back again

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and the reasons they gave were all kinds

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of reasons having to do with his

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politics and his various activities but

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none of them were really the reasons

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that that got up to that point we're

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going to talk about the real reasons

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they wanted him out of the loop okay and

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um some of the things you do about were

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just extremely extremely sensitive and

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the irony is everybody knows that of

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course

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Atomic weapons work is a very very

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highly classified very sensitive that

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actually and stuff we're really talking

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about that got him into his difficulties

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was much more sensitive than much more

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highly classified than that

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[Music]

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um

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given uh his if you're part of the

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expression pyrotechnic personality uh he

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was kind of in a cervix of Personality

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sometimes and at all fairness he did

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bring some of his problems on himself

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you know by being really kind of harsh

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with people sometimes

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um there were folks in the dark side of

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government who were simply afraid to let

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him let him go on having access to the

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kind of information he did have access

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to

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um

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here's some basic facts about hoppy

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including where he got that nickname

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um

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Lauren in 1904 New York that was

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undergraduate work at Harvard he was he

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actually did his bachelor's degree in

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three years at Harvard instead of four

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um he was

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it was one of these uh left brain hands

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right brain kinds of guys you know he uh

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of course uh was was it was a science

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major but he also studied things like

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um

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French Renaissance poetry you know he

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learned Sanskrit well enough to read the

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bhagavad-gita in the original Sanskrit

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for example he was one of those people

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that just you know the the left brain

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right brain thing didn't anything to him

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it was all the same thing

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all one really extraordinary brain

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he went up to Cambridge University to

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study with Nobel laryngitude Thompson

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and uh actually J.J Thompson was the guy

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who discovered the electron

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the first demonstrated that there is

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such a thing as an electronic

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um

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mechanics that was a brand new ball game

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event

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um the Government invited by Max Warren

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to study of cutting gun where he

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developed what was the later Colony born

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Oppenheimer method in quantum theory of

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molecules and uh in 1927 this could be

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completed his doctoral work had

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anticipation dealing with normalization

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of eigenfunctions and continuous

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Spectrum Theory

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try to say that 10 times fast

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we can talk about what that what that's

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all about if we if we had

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forever you know it's it's not an easy

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thing to talk about and I have to remind

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you he was 23 years old with the timing

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he got this PhD at Gutterman University

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um found himself working in the company

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some really Heavy Hitters like

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Rutherford Niels Bohr Paul durac and

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other people in quantum mechanics uh

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returned to the United States to do some

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teaching at Harvard and Caltech and

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Berkeley and then for post-doctoral

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studies with the light of University and

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the Netherlands and the deaf speakers

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there called him Vulcan hence Opie and

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the nickname actually stuck he liked to

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be called everybody calls him that

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[Music]

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the study with Wolfgang Polly uh and

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with whom he did work in a Quantum

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electronics and again at this point even

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it was only 25. this guy was really

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making some tracks you know early in

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life

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uh return to the United States and he

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did this kind of a funny teaching

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routine where he kind of kind of

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shuttled back and forth between Berkeley

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and Caltech he actually got teaching

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components at both places simultaneously

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I don't know if they knew about each

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other I guess I guess they probably

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could but anyway he was uh I often

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wondered if he found himself like on the

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highway driving in the wrong direction

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sometimes or something you know back and

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forth took some of the students whether

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some of his graduate students would take

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a course with them at Caltech and then

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run down the road and take the next

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course with him at Berkeley you know

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[Music]

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and about this time he had a love affair

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with a lady named Gene tatlock she was a

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member of the Communist party uh we're

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gonna have some discussion about what

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that meant in the 1930s that did not

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mean the same thing as it meant in the

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1950s or 60s

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um it broke up he broke up with her she

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would commit suicide in 1941 just as he

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was getting ready to get started almost

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almost time for the the Manhattan

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Project to start

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um

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Abby was kind of a political you know

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for for a long time but then through her

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he became kind of interested in what you

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might call liberal social economic

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issues the so-called Communists in the

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1930s but in those days that term really

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didn't have the political stigma that it

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would have associated with later you

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know

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um it it came to the fore a number of

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times during his his clearance hearings

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later on that they were treating the

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quote communism you know of the 1930s as

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if it were the communism of the 1950s

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and 1960s with all the international

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Intrigue implications you know and all

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the implications about you know kind of

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being in bed with the country's

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identities you know that sort of thing

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not the same things but they treated

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those things as if they were the same

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that's what was tragic actually in the

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in the mid 1930s uh chances are if you

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were living back then and you were in

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favor of labor unions you probably

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thought of yourself as a communist

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okay the words didn't mean this thing as

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it did later on

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um

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I mean don't get me wrong I'm not really

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terribly fond you know of you know

259
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leftist ideology of any kind but I'm

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just pointing out that there was a great

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deal of inaccuracy about how those words

262
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were used and the treatment of

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Oppenheimer

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he married Katie up in November 1940

265
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here we go again she had been a member

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of the Communist party uh but but a few

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years prior to that she got me kind of

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kind of discussed it with all things

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that dropped out of it disillusion with

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it

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um and Abby was uh I told you about the

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shuttling back and forth between Caltech

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and Berkeley he kind of started bleeding

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more toward Berkeley at some point and

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finally just went over there you know

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full time and that place was

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uh activity in things like theoretical

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physics at that point so he figured this

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is a clean slate for me to ride and this

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is a place where I can start new

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programs teach new courses do things

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00:11:12,710 --> 00:11:10,800
that were not done at this institution

283
00:11:15,710 --> 00:11:12,720
much before

284
00:11:17,750 --> 00:11:15,720
um and um he in fact worked there with

285
00:11:20,630 --> 00:11:17,760
Ernest Lawrence you may know that Ernest

286
00:11:22,190 --> 00:11:20,640
Lawrence are invented the cyclotron

287
00:11:25,009 --> 00:11:22,200
um so he was really kind of in on the

288
00:11:27,590 --> 00:11:25,019
ground floor with some of these things

289
00:11:29,329 --> 00:11:27,600
and by about 1942 it was becoming clear

290
00:11:31,850 --> 00:11:29,339
we were out after all into the water

291
00:11:33,470 --> 00:11:31,860
ourselves by then uh it was becoming

292
00:11:35,150 --> 00:11:33,480
clear that theoretical physics wasn't

293
00:11:37,009 --> 00:11:35,160
theoretical anymore you know if you're

294
00:11:38,630 --> 00:11:37,019
going to do physics you had a pretty

295
00:11:40,130 --> 00:11:38,640
good chance of ending up building bonds

296
00:11:42,290 --> 00:11:40,140
in fact it was going to have some

297
00:11:43,250 --> 00:11:42,300
applications like that

298
00:11:45,410 --> 00:11:43,260
um

299
00:11:47,150 --> 00:11:45,420
and he made discoveries that really kind

300
00:11:50,509 --> 00:11:47,160
of Drew attention to him separating your

301
00:11:53,269 --> 00:11:50,519
hearing 235 this this caught the eye of

302
00:11:54,170 --> 00:11:53,279
any number of important people

303
00:11:57,050 --> 00:11:54,180
um

304
00:11:59,630 --> 00:11:57,060
and increasingly he became convinced

305
00:12:02,449 --> 00:11:59,640
okay if we're gonna turn Nuclear Physics

306
00:12:05,449 --> 00:12:02,459
you know into into a uh an exercise in

307
00:12:07,069 --> 00:12:05,459
in weapon design a weapon Theory and so

308
00:12:08,569 --> 00:12:07,079
forth we're gonna have to do it in a

309
00:12:09,949 --> 00:12:08,579
more organized way than we're doing it

310
00:12:13,069 --> 00:12:09,959
we're going to have to bring everybody

311
00:12:14,930 --> 00:12:13,079
together and work on it in one place you

312
00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:14,940
know at one time together in the one

313
00:12:19,130 --> 00:12:18,240
kind of umbrella of leadership and so

314
00:12:21,769 --> 00:12:19,140
um

315
00:12:23,630 --> 00:12:21,779
in 1942 he met with General Leslie

316
00:12:25,610 --> 00:12:23,640
Groves to lay out Finance for the statue

317
00:12:27,050 --> 00:12:25,620
in a place like that and they actually

318
00:12:28,550 --> 00:12:27,060
named it before they even knew where

319
00:12:30,829 --> 00:12:28,560
they're going to put it you know they

320
00:12:32,569 --> 00:12:30,839
called it a plan they called it site y

321
00:12:34,910 --> 00:12:32,579
they didn't even know you they looked at

322
00:12:36,829 --> 00:12:34,920
various places they looked at Oak Ridge

323
00:12:38,889 --> 00:12:36,839
for example they decided to not put it

324
00:12:43,790 --> 00:12:38,899
there because of security reasons

325
00:12:48,230 --> 00:12:45,829
I'll be remembered because in his

326
00:12:51,350 --> 00:12:48,240
younger years spending a lot of time

327
00:12:54,290 --> 00:12:51,360
hiking and horseback riding and camping

328
00:12:56,509 --> 00:12:54,300
in a place in north of New Mexico uh

329
00:12:58,129 --> 00:12:56,519
atop a map of Los Alamos and he had

330
00:13:00,170 --> 00:12:58,139
always said my two great laws are

331
00:13:01,970 --> 00:13:00,180
physics and New Mexico it's a real shame

332
00:13:03,650 --> 00:13:01,980
I can't put them together

333
00:13:07,310 --> 00:13:03,660
and so all of a sudden there was an

334
00:13:08,230 --> 00:13:07,320
opportunity to do exactly that

335
00:13:10,910 --> 00:13:08,240
um

336
00:13:13,610 --> 00:13:10,920
Oppenheimer and and general grubs and

337
00:13:16,190 --> 00:13:13,620
two of his adjectives visited Los Alamos

338
00:13:17,629 --> 00:13:16,200
and they they liked the place actually

339
00:13:20,269 --> 00:13:17,639
in a sense they kind of like the place

340
00:13:22,370 --> 00:13:20,279
too much because it wasn't really as

341
00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:22,380
good as Sonic for what they were

342
00:13:26,389 --> 00:13:23,940
planning to do as they thought it was

343
00:13:27,590 --> 00:13:26,399
going to be it was too small for one

344
00:13:30,290 --> 00:13:27,600
thing

345
00:13:32,750 --> 00:13:30,300
General Groves actually thought at that

346
00:13:34,790 --> 00:13:32,760
time that this project the project of

347
00:13:37,790 --> 00:13:34,800
developing a nuclear weapon was going to

348
00:13:39,470 --> 00:13:37,800
involve probably at the outside about a

349
00:13:41,690 --> 00:13:39,480
hundred people

350
00:13:43,009 --> 00:13:41,700
working with you know the four often

351
00:13:44,090 --> 00:13:43,019
hundred who's going to be in charge of

352
00:13:48,129 --> 00:13:44,100
the project

353
00:13:50,449 --> 00:13:48,139
Well turns out that within a year

354
00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:50,459
Oppenheimer is going to have 3 500

355
00:13:54,769 --> 00:13:52,320
people employed working for him there

356
00:13:58,370 --> 00:13:54,779
that was going to swell to six thousand

357
00:13:59,629 --> 00:13:58,380
very quickly and that's only if you

358
00:14:01,310 --> 00:13:59,639
count just the people that are right

359
00:14:03,410 --> 00:14:01,320
there on the immediate side that doesn't

360
00:14:05,210 --> 00:14:03,420
count things like suppliers and people

361
00:14:06,949 --> 00:14:05,220
like that you know scan it all over the

362
00:14:10,129 --> 00:14:06,959
place and that runs it up into the tens

363
00:14:12,050 --> 00:14:10,139
of thousands of people who in one sense

364
00:14:14,690 --> 00:14:12,060
or another have and we're going to have

365
00:14:16,970 --> 00:14:14,700
a timer as a boss okay if you have a lot

366
00:14:19,490 --> 00:14:16,980
of people working for him uh and by mid

367
00:14:20,509 --> 00:14:19,500
1943 they were doing an artist and he

368
00:14:23,150 --> 00:14:20,519
turned out to be a remarkable

369
00:14:25,129 --> 00:14:23,160
administrator by the way how often would

370
00:14:26,389 --> 00:14:25,139
you expect a theoretical physicist you

371
00:14:28,370 --> 00:14:26,399
know to be able to step into a position

372
00:14:30,530 --> 00:14:28,380
like this and run everything like a

373
00:14:32,590 --> 00:14:30,540
business almost he was he was a

374
00:14:35,090 --> 00:14:32,600
remarkable talented at that

375
00:14:36,350 --> 00:14:35,100
but then something happened that

376
00:14:38,150 --> 00:14:36,360
shouldn't happen

377
00:14:39,949 --> 00:14:38,160
just before they were getting ready for

378
00:14:42,350 --> 00:14:39,959
everybody to move to Los Alamos this is

379
00:14:43,250 --> 00:14:42,360
when Bobby was still Berkeley

380
00:14:45,230 --> 00:14:43,260
um

381
00:14:46,269 --> 00:14:45,240
a and a French professor at Berkeley

382
00:14:49,189 --> 00:14:46,279
named

383
00:14:52,030 --> 00:14:49,199
and his wife came over to a dinner with

384
00:14:54,970 --> 00:14:52,040
uh with Avi and and kitty Oppenheimer

385
00:14:58,910 --> 00:14:54,980
Robert McKinney and uh

386
00:15:02,090 --> 00:14:58,920
uh Chevalier made sort of an overture to

387
00:15:04,250 --> 00:15:02,100
him he says you know I know this guy of

388
00:15:06,410 --> 00:15:04,260
this engineer named George Alton who's

389
00:15:08,269 --> 00:15:06,420
interested in finding ways of conveying

390
00:15:10,189 --> 00:15:08,279
scientific scientific information to

391
00:15:12,710 --> 00:15:10,199
Russian scientists

392
00:15:16,129 --> 00:15:12,720
and I wonder if you can make help us

393
00:15:18,230 --> 00:15:16,139
find ways to do that and basically often

394
00:15:20,629 --> 00:15:18,240
I were told to buzz off

395
00:15:23,269 --> 00:15:20,639
okay he said are you gonna be nice you

396
00:15:25,490 --> 00:15:23,279
know I'm not going to do that I wouldn't

397
00:15:27,650 --> 00:15:25,500
even consider it you know don't don't

398
00:15:30,050 --> 00:15:27,660
even bring it up again and that was

399
00:15:32,870 --> 00:15:30,060
that's his response but he made two very

400
00:15:34,430 --> 00:15:32,880
serious mistakes these were the two

401
00:15:36,949 --> 00:15:34,440
indiscretions

402
00:15:38,870 --> 00:15:36,959
of his life pretty much

403
00:15:41,629 --> 00:15:38,880
he waited several months before he told

404
00:15:43,910 --> 00:15:41,639
Army intelligence about it

405
00:15:45,590 --> 00:15:43,920
okay what he should have done right

406
00:15:47,150 --> 00:15:45,600
there in front of Chevalier is pick the

407
00:15:48,710 --> 00:15:47,160
phone up and call them

408
00:15:50,269 --> 00:15:48,720
all right first of all I should have

409
00:15:51,290 --> 00:15:50,279
said get the hell out of my house you

410
00:15:52,430 --> 00:15:51,300
know then he should have that he

411
00:15:54,110 --> 00:15:52,440
shouldn't picked the phone up you know

412
00:15:56,689 --> 00:15:54,120
they called him right and he did not do

413
00:15:58,430 --> 00:15:56,699
that and later on when he did do it he

414
00:16:00,590 --> 00:15:58,440
declined the first the name names he

415
00:16:02,870 --> 00:16:00,600
didn't actually tell him that it was it

416
00:16:05,329 --> 00:16:02,880
was not contrave first later he did but

417
00:16:07,730 --> 00:16:05,339
not right away and that delay actually

418
00:16:11,470 --> 00:16:07,740
that that whole wave of responding to it

419
00:16:14,389 --> 00:16:11,480
came to be thought of later on as

420
00:16:16,069 --> 00:16:14,399
uh has indiscretion in terms of like how

421
00:16:17,810 --> 00:16:16,079
he should have reacted and everything it

422
00:16:20,090 --> 00:16:17,820
was poor Judgment at the very least they

423
00:16:22,730 --> 00:16:20,100
thought and he admitted later on in fact

424
00:16:24,170 --> 00:16:22,740
that that was true it was poor judgment

425
00:16:25,730 --> 00:16:24,180
um but that's that's really a

426
00:16:28,129 --> 00:16:25,740
Discretions okay no classified

427
00:16:29,930 --> 00:16:28,139
information was lost nothing was passed

428
00:16:31,670 --> 00:16:29,940
to anybody you know illegally didn't do

429
00:16:33,110 --> 00:16:31,680
anything you know that kind but he did

430
00:16:38,329 --> 00:16:33,120
respond

431
00:16:41,749 --> 00:16:40,370
um

432
00:16:45,050 --> 00:16:41,759
there were some people who didn't want

433
00:16:47,210 --> 00:16:45,060
him to be in a position of running

434
00:16:49,310 --> 00:16:47,220
the the bomb project

435
00:16:50,449 --> 00:16:49,320
okay

436
00:16:52,310 --> 00:16:50,459
um

437
00:16:54,230 --> 00:16:52,320
they made various excuses he was too

438
00:16:55,550 --> 00:16:54,240
young and boy talked about high

439
00:17:03,309 --> 00:16:55,560
standards and some of them said he

440
00:17:09,110 --> 00:17:06,110
he had left-wing political associations

441
00:17:10,789 --> 00:17:09,120
and liberal leanings dating in the 1930s

442
00:17:13,730 --> 00:17:10,799
since of those terms that it kind of

443
00:17:15,949 --> 00:17:13,740
made some people nervous uh but General

444
00:17:18,949 --> 00:17:15,959
Grow stuck up for him because he wanted

445
00:17:20,750 --> 00:17:18,959
him he said okay you guys you don't want

446
00:17:22,789 --> 00:17:20,760
Oppenheimer to do this

447
00:17:24,110 --> 00:17:22,799
you just you know you go over there and

448
00:17:26,390 --> 00:17:24,120
kind of put your heads together you

449
00:17:28,730 --> 00:17:26,400
start all that out okay in the meantime

450
00:17:30,710 --> 00:17:28,740
I need this guy's praying

451
00:17:32,270 --> 00:17:30,720
all right so you guys started out I

452
00:17:33,890 --> 00:17:32,280
don't care I need the guy's money we got

453
00:17:35,570 --> 00:17:33,900
a bomb to the middle and this is the guy

454
00:17:38,390 --> 00:17:35,580
that can do it

455
00:17:39,890 --> 00:17:38,400
and he prevailed

456
00:17:42,830 --> 00:17:39,900
um

457
00:17:44,630 --> 00:17:42,840
he oversaw it with with Brilliance and

458
00:17:47,090 --> 00:17:44,640
it all worked out it was like it was a

459
00:17:48,350 --> 00:17:47,100
long hard anybody that's ever you know

460
00:17:49,850 --> 00:17:48,360
looked at the way that whole thing

461
00:17:51,950 --> 00:17:49,860
transpired and her knows that it was

462
00:17:54,710 --> 00:17:51,960
very very complicated and

463
00:17:57,470 --> 00:17:54,720
problematized sort of process but it did

464
00:17:59,930 --> 00:17:57,480
work on the morning of 16 July 1945 the

465
00:18:02,029 --> 00:17:59,940
maternities night just about what was

466
00:18:05,510 --> 00:18:02,039
100 miles from here uh

467
00:18:08,330 --> 00:18:05,520
well the sun came up twice

468
00:18:13,730 --> 00:18:08,340
First In A Flash so bright

469
00:18:15,590 --> 00:18:13,740
the blind girl 20 miles away saw that

470
00:18:18,169 --> 00:18:15,600
and the second time it was just a much

471
00:18:21,890 --> 00:18:18,179
dimmer object that we call the Sun

472
00:18:23,750 --> 00:18:21,900
okay but it worked nobody was really

473
00:18:25,909 --> 00:18:23,760
sure that it would by the way you know a

474
00:18:28,909 --> 00:18:25,919
obvious brother Frank was there but

475
00:18:32,230 --> 00:18:28,919
Frank says you know Robert just kind of

476
00:18:34,549 --> 00:18:32,240
touched me like this it worked

477
00:18:36,350 --> 00:18:34,559
actually some of them thought it was

478
00:18:38,390 --> 00:18:36,360
going to ignite the atmosphere instead

479
00:18:40,490 --> 00:18:38,400
of Unstoppable Chain Reaction so but of

480
00:18:41,810 --> 00:18:40,500
course that didn't happen

481
00:18:44,690 --> 00:18:41,820
um

482
00:18:47,510 --> 00:18:44,700
and it caught his mind his classically

483
00:18:49,310 --> 00:18:47,520
trained mind remember the alliance you

484
00:18:51,470 --> 00:18:49,320
know I have become death the destroyer

485
00:18:54,710 --> 00:18:51,480
of worlds

486
00:18:59,890 --> 00:18:57,890
after after the war

487
00:19:02,510 --> 00:18:59,900
well I'm sorry

488
00:19:05,029 --> 00:19:02,520
he was on a panel to decide what to do

489
00:19:07,130 --> 00:19:05,039
with the bomb first of all

490
00:19:09,409 --> 00:19:07,140
Truman has some questions as to whether

491
00:19:10,610 --> 00:19:09,419
we should really drop that you know he

492
00:19:12,409 --> 00:19:10,620
thought this is really going to be

493
00:19:14,630 --> 00:19:12,419
terrible if we could do this you know so

494
00:19:17,029 --> 00:19:14,640
couldn't we just like show them we've

495
00:19:18,710 --> 00:19:17,039
got it you know and talk about it and

496
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:18,720
they can do a demonstration for them out

497
00:19:22,130 --> 00:19:20,640
of the desert or something and and Avi

498
00:19:23,750 --> 00:19:22,140
and the other people under the panel

499
00:19:26,510 --> 00:19:23,760
said no

500
00:19:28,370 --> 00:19:26,520
we built this thing to use

501
00:19:30,950 --> 00:19:28,380
it's meaningless if we don't use it

502
00:19:33,130 --> 00:19:30,960
we've got to drama

503
00:19:36,470 --> 00:19:33,140
okay and of course they did

504
00:19:38,510 --> 00:19:36,480
on the 6th of August uh Hiroshima was

505
00:19:40,789 --> 00:19:38,520
bombed Nagasaki three days later uh

506
00:19:42,350 --> 00:19:40,799
Japan surrendered Wars over the world

507
00:19:45,409 --> 00:19:42,360
was a different world

508
00:19:47,330 --> 00:19:45,419
he was a national hero again of a Unique

509
00:19:50,090 --> 00:19:47,340
Kind

510
00:19:53,470 --> 00:19:50,100
and during the post-warriors he served

511
00:19:57,590 --> 00:19:53,480
basically in a government uh

512
00:20:00,529 --> 00:19:57,600
sort of capacity as a consultant and as

513
00:20:02,750 --> 00:20:00,539
a you know the various jobs having to do

514
00:20:06,470 --> 00:20:02,760
with the advisement of management atomic

515
00:20:07,789 --> 00:20:06,480
energy and including including Weaponry

516
00:20:09,830 --> 00:20:07,799
um trailer pointed to the general

517
00:20:11,870 --> 00:20:09,840
advisor Committee of what was the brand

518
00:20:14,270 --> 00:20:11,880
new atomic energy commission and he

519
00:20:16,210 --> 00:20:14,280
became chairman of that committee and

520
00:20:18,289 --> 00:20:16,220
there was a fellow named Louis Strauss

521
00:20:19,909 --> 00:20:18,299
it looked like these guys were going to

522
00:20:23,529 --> 00:20:19,919
get along famously it's really kind of

523
00:20:27,770 --> 00:20:25,789
was heading a committee looking for a

524
00:20:29,990 --> 00:20:27,780
director of the president Institute for

525
00:20:31,810 --> 00:20:30,000
advanced studies they were trying to

526
00:20:33,830 --> 00:20:31,820
find somebody to take that job and

527
00:20:35,810 --> 00:20:33,840
Strauss wanted to appoint the

528
00:20:37,610 --> 00:20:35,820
opportunity

529
00:20:39,950 --> 00:20:37,620
and I'm never told to set a very

530
00:20:41,870 --> 00:20:39,960
interesting thing to him he said you

531
00:20:43,370 --> 00:20:41,880
know Louis

532
00:20:45,770 --> 00:20:43,380
um

533
00:20:48,289 --> 00:20:45,780
I'm flattered you know I'm pleased you

534
00:20:49,970 --> 00:20:48,299
know that you want me to be ahead of the

535
00:20:52,490 --> 00:20:49,980
Princeton Institute for advanced studies

536
00:20:55,130 --> 00:20:52,500
but you might want to rethink it

537
00:20:58,549 --> 00:20:55,140
because the FBI has some files on me

538
00:21:00,890 --> 00:20:58,559
that are questionable I don't think

539
00:21:02,630 --> 00:21:00,900
you'd like them you know very kind of

540
00:21:03,770 --> 00:21:02,640
derogatory in some ways that I don't

541
00:21:06,169 --> 00:21:03,780
think you ought to think you don't think

542
00:21:07,850 --> 00:21:06,179
about it maybe you don't want to

543
00:21:09,470 --> 00:21:07,860
I want to want to recommend me to be

544
00:21:12,049 --> 00:21:09,480
appointed for that so so after it was

545
00:21:15,110 --> 00:21:12,059
very very upfront about that you know

546
00:21:16,430 --> 00:21:15,120
and stratosis the response was I don't

547
00:21:19,130 --> 00:21:16,440
care

548
00:21:21,529 --> 00:21:19,140
I've seen those files they don't bother

549
00:21:24,289 --> 00:21:21,539
me and I still want to want to recommend

550
00:21:26,090 --> 00:21:24,299
you for that post and in fact uh he did

551
00:21:29,270 --> 00:21:26,100
an Oppenheimer became the director there

552
00:21:31,310 --> 00:21:29,280
at Princeton in April of 1947. uh

553
00:21:33,529 --> 00:21:31,320
unhappily the relations between Strauss

554
00:21:39,430 --> 00:21:33,539
and Oppenheimer would turn around 180

555
00:21:45,350 --> 00:21:42,950
GIC chairmanship and uh was active in

556
00:21:48,289 --> 00:21:45,360
physics he was this is very important in

557
00:21:49,669 --> 00:21:48,299
1947 given a renewed Hue clearance

558
00:21:51,049 --> 00:21:49,679
you got to think about these dates

559
00:21:53,930 --> 00:21:51,059
because later on they're going to pray

560
00:21:55,610 --> 00:21:53,940
at this guy that's untrustworthy okay so

561
00:21:58,250 --> 00:21:55,620
you've got to think about things like it

562
00:22:00,289 --> 00:21:58,260
in 1947 he he got his Q clearance

563
00:22:03,110 --> 00:22:00,299
renewed apparently he trusted him

564
00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:03,120
implicitly at that point

565
00:22:10,250 --> 00:22:06,780
um and uh as we will see a little later

566
00:22:11,289 --> 00:22:10,260
between 1947 anybody ever hear that date

567
00:22:14,810 --> 00:22:11,299
before

568
00:22:16,430 --> 00:22:14,820
1947 and about 1953 some other things

569
00:22:19,730 --> 00:22:16,440
seemed to be happening in his

570
00:22:21,830 --> 00:22:19,740
professional life and that uh those are

571
00:22:24,049 --> 00:22:21,840
things not not widely spoken up

572
00:22:26,810 --> 00:22:24,059
especially from the government and there

573
00:22:28,310 --> 00:22:26,820
were storm clouds on the horizon for now

574
00:22:30,710 --> 00:22:28,320
we're going to pass over those things

575
00:22:33,169 --> 00:22:30,720
for just a moment and just talk about

576
00:22:34,730 --> 00:22:33,179
some of the other things going on uh

577
00:22:36,529 --> 00:22:34,740
Edward Teller was jumping up and down

578
00:22:39,049 --> 00:22:36,539
with eagerness you know to to to to

579
00:22:41,270 --> 00:22:39,059
build an h-bomb he was a big Hawk you

580
00:22:43,970 --> 00:22:41,280
know building the age about

581
00:22:45,830 --> 00:22:43,980
Abby didn't think so

582
00:22:47,330 --> 00:22:45,840
I'll be fought

583
00:22:48,529 --> 00:22:47,340
there there are better things with how

584
00:22:50,270 --> 00:22:48,539
to be good on me

585
00:22:52,610 --> 00:22:50,280
okay

586
00:22:53,930 --> 00:22:52,620
um we need to be developing not the

587
00:22:56,690 --> 00:22:53,940
aspects that we should be developing

588
00:22:58,789 --> 00:22:56,700
smaller tactical weapons

589
00:23:00,230 --> 00:22:58,799
okay if we're going to actually do

590
00:23:02,149 --> 00:23:00,240
anything with atomic power what's wrong

591
00:23:03,950 --> 00:23:02,159
with uh with you know small tactical

592
00:23:05,570 --> 00:23:03,960
weapons that'll you know as you actually

593
00:23:07,250 --> 00:23:05,580
you know take into battle or something

594
00:23:08,450 --> 00:23:07,260
but you know come on age problem that's

595
00:23:10,070 --> 00:23:08,460
a whole that's that we're talking

596
00:23:11,330 --> 00:23:10,080
genocide you know when you start

597
00:23:14,149 --> 00:23:11,340
thinking about dropping that kind of

598
00:23:15,710 --> 00:23:14,159
thing on anybody and Avi wasn't really

599
00:23:17,930 --> 00:23:15,720
buying it

600
00:23:20,270 --> 00:23:17,940
um and many other people weren't either

601
00:23:22,070 --> 00:23:20,280
uh it kind of got lost in the shuffle

602
00:23:24,470 --> 00:23:22,080
later on but off whenever was not alone

603
00:23:25,970 --> 00:23:24,480
in this in this feeling about the h-bomb

604
00:23:28,730 --> 00:23:25,980
but he's the one that ended up suffering

605
00:23:30,710 --> 00:23:28,740
for it because it became an excuse

606
00:23:32,390 --> 00:23:30,720
it became an excuse for them to say see

607
00:23:33,830 --> 00:23:32,400
you know he's not with us at all you

608
00:23:35,450 --> 00:23:33,840
know he doesn't want to build the h-bomb

609
00:23:37,789 --> 00:23:35,460
and so what did I tell you you know he's

610
00:23:39,570 --> 00:23:37,799
uh he sympathizes with our animation and

611
00:23:39,950 --> 00:23:39,580
so forth and so on

612
00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:39,960
[Music]

613
00:23:44,090 --> 00:23:41,280
um

614
00:23:47,210 --> 00:23:44,100
well his term with the aec was coming up

615
00:23:49,430 --> 00:23:47,220
for a renewal in the summer of 1952 and

616
00:23:51,529 --> 00:23:49,440
who pops up a teller

617
00:23:54,049 --> 00:23:51,539
and tell her had a grudge

618
00:23:56,450 --> 00:23:54,059
because when they were at Los Alamos

619
00:23:58,370 --> 00:23:56,460
poppy passed him over

620
00:23:59,990 --> 00:23:58,380
for our appointment to the theoretic to

621
00:24:01,789 --> 00:24:00,000
have the theoretical position there at

622
00:24:04,669 --> 00:24:01,799
Los Alamos and and the point of times

623
00:24:06,710 --> 00:24:04,679
better instead

624
00:24:08,390 --> 00:24:06,720
um tell it was still kind of wincing

625
00:24:11,149 --> 00:24:08,400
over that you know he still was holding

626
00:24:12,950 --> 00:24:11,159
a grudge about that in fact actually not

627
00:24:14,149 --> 00:24:12,960
only that happened but John's Pizza I

628
00:24:16,610 --> 00:24:14,159
actually asked him to leave the division

629
00:24:19,130 --> 00:24:16,620
altogether later on because he wasn't

630
00:24:20,690 --> 00:24:19,140
you know Towing the Mark or something

631
00:24:23,570 --> 00:24:20,700
um

632
00:24:26,090 --> 00:24:23,580
and so teller came out opposing

633
00:24:28,430 --> 00:24:26,100
obviously

634
00:24:30,830 --> 00:24:28,440
okay

635
00:24:33,110 --> 00:24:30,840
um and here's here's what he uses the

636
00:24:34,210 --> 00:24:33,120
reason he said it's a personal vanity

637
00:24:37,010 --> 00:24:34,220
issue

638
00:24:38,330 --> 00:24:37,020
Ali's afraid that her weapon life WiFi

639
00:24:40,370 --> 00:24:38,340
age problem that I want to build would

640
00:24:42,529 --> 00:24:40,380
Trump his bomb

641
00:24:45,169 --> 00:24:42,539
and and can you believe anything to be

642
00:24:47,029 --> 00:24:45,179
that childish basically teller actually

643
00:24:48,830 --> 00:24:47,039
was saying in effect we're going to get

644
00:24:50,990 --> 00:24:48,840
into it into a kicking and spinning

645
00:24:52,610 --> 00:24:51,000
match here and people again it's like on

646
00:24:55,430 --> 00:24:52,620
the playground you know my boxes bigger

647
00:24:57,830 --> 00:24:55,440
than yours you know I cannot out explode

648
00:24:59,149 --> 00:24:57,840
you you know and that's that's what he

649
00:25:00,430 --> 00:24:59,159
said that's essentially how he

650
00:25:03,289 --> 00:25:00,440
characterized

651
00:25:05,450 --> 00:25:03,299
Oppenheimer he said all this that he

652
00:25:09,230 --> 00:25:05,460
can't build a bomb as big as I can

653
00:25:10,490 --> 00:25:09,240
you know God give me a break and no

654
00:25:12,549 --> 00:25:10,500
matter how

655
00:25:15,770 --> 00:25:12,559
idiotic that was

656
00:25:18,470 --> 00:25:15,780
unfortunately Eisenhower bought him

657
00:25:20,690 --> 00:25:18,480
okay and so he he declined to Waypoint

658
00:25:23,450 --> 00:25:20,700
Optima after the GAC

659
00:25:28,330 --> 00:25:23,460
more trouble ahead Along Comes This

660
00:25:28,340 --> 00:25:32,810
a real doofus

661
00:25:37,850 --> 00:25:35,930
uh executive director of a joint

662
00:25:39,289 --> 00:25:37,860
committee on atomic energy in Congress

663
00:25:40,669 --> 00:25:39,299
now look at that very careful if we're

664
00:25:42,529 --> 00:25:40,679
not talking about science here we're

665
00:25:44,029 --> 00:25:42,539
talking about stuff going on in Congress

666
00:25:47,149 --> 00:25:44,039
okay

667
00:25:48,769 --> 00:25:47,159
I mean this guy you know probably you

668
00:25:51,590 --> 00:25:48,779
know had never taken a you know a

669
00:25:52,909 --> 00:25:51,600
freshman physics class all right so here

670
00:25:55,549 --> 00:25:52,919
he's the head of this committee he

671
00:25:57,710 --> 00:25:55,559
writes a letter in February 53 to the

672
00:25:59,630 --> 00:25:57,720
FBI accusing Oppenheimer being quote

673
00:26:02,149 --> 00:25:59,640
more probably than not an agent of the

674
00:26:05,390 --> 00:26:02,159
Soviet Union and Teller was right back

675
00:26:07,490 --> 00:26:05,400
there egging it on right uh this charge

676
00:26:09,830 --> 00:26:07,500
was absolutely untrue but the letter

677
00:26:11,930 --> 00:26:09,840
didn't have its effect

678
00:26:16,850 --> 00:26:14,029
Louis Strauss kind of got into the ball

679
00:26:19,970 --> 00:26:16,860
game by now Robin iron played an enemy

680
00:26:21,350 --> 00:26:19,980
of him by by humiliating and mocking him

681
00:26:24,110 --> 00:26:21,360
in front of a congressional committee

682
00:26:26,210 --> 00:26:24,120
one time I told you sometimes Opie

683
00:26:29,149 --> 00:26:26,220
created his own problems

684
00:26:32,330 --> 00:26:29,159
that was one time you know actually not

685
00:26:34,610 --> 00:26:32,340
not you know not strangely uh Strauss

686
00:26:36,590 --> 00:26:34,620
never forgave him from doing that

687
00:26:39,049 --> 00:26:36,600
I've seen that on film by the way it was

688
00:26:41,450 --> 00:26:39,059
a real a real trash job you know man

689
00:26:43,190 --> 00:26:41,460
straws never forget about it

690
00:26:45,350 --> 00:26:43,200
um and so they all kind of started

691
00:26:47,510 --> 00:26:45,360
getting together and the the plan was to

692
00:26:50,149 --> 00:26:47,520
kind of Groom tell her over tell her to

693
00:26:53,570 --> 00:26:50,159
be the new science icon everybody looked

694
00:26:57,350 --> 00:26:53,580
up to you know and kind of start pushing

695
00:26:59,870 --> 00:26:57,360
uh off of Hunter into the corner and uh

696
00:27:01,789 --> 00:26:59,880
boarded and the letter also said that uh

697
00:27:03,590 --> 00:27:01,799
this and this you know I just almost

698
00:27:06,769 --> 00:27:03,600
can't talk about this

699
00:27:08,149 --> 00:27:06,779
this infuriates me to the point where

700
00:27:10,130 --> 00:27:08,159
actually

701
00:27:11,930 --> 00:27:10,140
I may have to go out of the hall you

702
00:27:13,310 --> 00:27:11,940
know and cool off for a minute before I

703
00:27:16,010 --> 00:27:13,320
continue because

704
00:27:18,110 --> 00:27:16,020
what what border Board of examples often

705
00:27:21,649 --> 00:27:18,120
Iran has not made major contributions to

706
00:27:26,810 --> 00:27:24,409
this guy wouldn't have known science if

707
00:27:29,450 --> 00:27:26,820
it walked up a bit of an ass

708
00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:32,029
you really wouldn't have you know this

709
00:27:36,230 --> 00:27:34,380
guy was basically a congressman who had

710
00:27:38,870 --> 00:27:36,240
some didn't know diddly Squad about

711
00:27:41,570 --> 00:27:38,880
anything except serving on you know

712
00:27:43,430 --> 00:27:41,580
Silly committees and whatnot

713
00:27:46,250 --> 00:27:43,440
um and he has the nerve to pass Judgment

714
00:27:49,010 --> 00:27:46,260
of an Irish professional competence

715
00:27:51,950 --> 00:27:49,020
I find that so profoundly disgusting

716
00:27:54,470 --> 00:27:51,960
that I always can't talk about it

717
00:28:02,350 --> 00:27:54,480
the letter said these things Abby has no

718
00:28:06,890 --> 00:28:04,909
by the way the FBI has checked all of

719
00:28:09,289 --> 00:28:06,900
this out over the years they had him

720
00:28:11,390 --> 00:28:09,299
under surveillance for a long time and

721
00:28:13,789 --> 00:28:11,400
none of us ever you know had the least

722
00:28:16,070 --> 00:28:13,799
shred of truth to it he worked

723
00:28:18,710 --> 00:28:16,080
tirelessly to retired the h-bomb broken

724
00:28:21,409 --> 00:28:18,720
Oppenheimer never said a word to anyone

725
00:28:23,450 --> 00:28:21,419
to the effect don't work on the age Bond

726
00:28:25,370 --> 00:28:23,460
project I only told people was I'm not

727
00:28:27,230 --> 00:28:25,380
going to work on them

728
00:28:28,909 --> 00:28:27,240
okay I don't I don't think it's a good

729
00:28:30,169 --> 00:28:28,919
idea there are better things without me

730
00:28:33,350 --> 00:28:30,179
doing but if you want to work on it

731
00:28:34,850 --> 00:28:33,360
that's up to you know it was a hardened

732
00:28:36,710 --> 00:28:34,860
communist

733
00:28:38,630 --> 00:28:36,720
uh who probably passed Espionage

734
00:28:41,090 --> 00:28:38,640
information along the Russian's absolute

735
00:28:43,730 --> 00:28:41,100
garbage

736
00:28:45,230 --> 00:28:43,740
um in fact here's you know we talked the

737
00:28:46,669 --> 00:28:45,240
other day on one of my other electrics

738
00:28:48,890 --> 00:28:46,679
about what's wrong with the logic of

739
00:28:50,750 --> 00:28:48,900
cover-ups

740
00:28:52,909 --> 00:28:50,760
here's what's wrong with the logic here

741
00:28:55,430 --> 00:28:52,919
I just read you a whole list of charges

742
00:28:58,710 --> 00:28:55,440
making that letter against Oppenheimer

743
00:29:00,529 --> 00:28:58,720
if those things have been true

744
00:29:02,710 --> 00:29:00,539
[Music]

745
00:29:07,070 --> 00:29:02,720
Oppenheimer would have been arrested

746
00:29:09,289 --> 00:29:07,080
tried convicted in prison quite possibly

747
00:29:12,049 --> 00:29:09,299
executed

748
00:29:14,330 --> 00:29:12,059
for treason I remember the execution of

749
00:29:16,850 --> 00:29:14,340
the rosenbergs that could have happened

750
00:29:18,110 --> 00:29:16,860
to him if any of that had been true so

751
00:29:19,669 --> 00:29:18,120
why the hell did none of those things

752
00:29:22,610 --> 00:29:19,679
happen to him

753
00:29:24,230 --> 00:29:22,620
uh why did they just kind of pass this

754
00:29:26,450 --> 00:29:24,240
letter around and not do anything about

755
00:29:28,250 --> 00:29:26,460
anything but it was true it's like we're

756
00:29:30,769 --> 00:29:28,260
living in some kind of a

757
00:29:32,570 --> 00:29:30,779
Never Never Land of craziness or

758
00:29:34,370 --> 00:29:32,580
something if I'm going to let alone like

759
00:29:37,310 --> 00:29:34,380
that to be taken seriously and yet they

760
00:29:39,350 --> 00:29:37,320
don't do anything to him except just

761
00:29:41,810 --> 00:29:39,360
plot you know further imaginations

762
00:29:44,389 --> 00:29:41,820
against him with the letter remember

763
00:29:47,870 --> 00:29:44,399
these were the days of McCarthyism and

764
00:29:51,049 --> 00:29:47,880
paranoia and all kinds of weird thinking

765
00:29:52,909 --> 00:29:51,059
um crazy things happen that

766
00:29:54,289 --> 00:29:52,919
we're going to lost a job because she

767
00:29:56,450 --> 00:29:54,299
had read The Works of London in a

768
00:29:58,130 --> 00:29:56,460
political science class

769
00:29:59,570 --> 00:29:58,140
and those books were still on her book

770
00:30:02,210 --> 00:29:59,580
she also when The Inquisitor came

771
00:30:03,889 --> 00:30:02,220
through and looked

772
00:30:07,690 --> 00:30:03,899
Matt lost the security clearance because

773
00:30:14,090 --> 00:30:10,549
some people studied Russian language or

774
00:30:15,590 --> 00:30:14,100
literature were put on suspicion lists I

775
00:30:16,789 --> 00:30:15,600
mean that's the kind of crazy stuff and

776
00:30:20,330 --> 00:30:16,799
by the way in case you're wondering

777
00:30:22,130 --> 00:30:20,340
whether Oppenheimer and Senator McCarthy

778
00:30:25,789 --> 00:30:22,140
ever ended up in the same room together

779
00:30:28,610 --> 00:30:25,799
no they didn't uh because because people

780
00:30:29,210 --> 00:30:28,620
actively try to avoid it

781
00:30:31,250 --> 00:30:29,220
um

782
00:30:34,070 --> 00:30:31,260
everybody who had cared anything about

783
00:30:36,289 --> 00:30:34,080
McCarthy at all you know knew that if if

784
00:30:38,169 --> 00:30:36,299
McCarthy and Oppenheimer ever ended up

785
00:30:40,310 --> 00:30:38,179
in the same room at the same time

786
00:30:42,470 --> 00:30:40,320
Oppenheimer was going to rip him to

787
00:30:44,210 --> 00:30:42,480
shreds

788
00:30:46,430 --> 00:30:44,220
everybody could seem to do that to other

789
00:30:47,870 --> 00:30:46,440
people and and of course McCarthy wasn't

790
00:30:50,570 --> 00:30:47,880
very bright to start with you know it

791
00:30:52,130 --> 00:30:50,580
would have been basically Child's Play

792
00:30:55,490 --> 00:30:52,140
um so no they never been Tangled

793
00:30:58,970 --> 00:30:57,350
um

794
00:31:01,549 --> 00:30:58,980
and then something kind of interesting

795
00:31:03,590 --> 00:31:01,559
happened Eisenhower author of Louis

796
00:31:07,549 --> 00:31:03,600
Strauss remember is now conceived of the

797
00:31:10,370 --> 00:31:07,559
anonymity for Oppenheimer uh the

798
00:31:12,230 --> 00:31:10,380
chairmanship of the ABC and Strauss

799
00:31:13,850 --> 00:31:12,240
replied that he wouldn't do it as long

800
00:31:16,669 --> 00:31:13,860
as Oppenheimer still had anything to do

801
00:31:18,830 --> 00:31:16,679
with America's nuclear program

802
00:31:21,289 --> 00:31:18,840
with the weapons program

803
00:31:23,870 --> 00:31:21,299
um Strauss met with icon the second of

804
00:31:26,990 --> 00:31:23,880
December later in a book and in fact

805
00:31:28,490 --> 00:31:27,000
lied about it said he was never there

806
00:31:30,289 --> 00:31:28,500
um and they talked

807
00:31:32,330 --> 00:31:30,299
he recommended to the president that a

808
00:31:34,250 --> 00:31:32,340
blank wall the erected into an

809
00:31:36,350 --> 00:31:34,260
Oppenheimer and all government secrets

810
00:31:37,810 --> 00:31:36,360
and it weren't all there is pretty

811
00:31:41,870 --> 00:31:37,820
important

812
00:31:44,210 --> 00:31:41,880
and then they met again on December 3rd

813
00:31:45,830 --> 00:31:44,220
um and and I looked up Strauss did admit

814
00:31:46,850 --> 00:31:45,840
going to this meeting

815
00:31:47,990 --> 00:31:46,860
um

816
00:31:50,389 --> 00:31:48,000
there were several people there

817
00:31:51,830 --> 00:31:50,399
including a Chapman Robert Cutler it's

818
00:31:53,930 --> 00:31:51,840
very interesting for him to be there

819
00:31:56,570 --> 00:31:53,940
because he was up to his ears and UFO

820
00:31:59,210 --> 00:31:56,580
related activity there's a famous Cutler

821
00:32:00,950 --> 00:31:59,220
Twining memo you know that basically you

822
00:32:03,529 --> 00:32:00,960
know talks about the formation of

823
00:32:05,630 --> 00:32:03,539
Majestic 12 and so on

824
00:32:07,310 --> 00:32:05,640
um so the meeting was Oppenheimer and

825
00:32:08,690 --> 00:32:07,320
and basically they decided right then

826
00:32:11,389 --> 00:32:08,700
and there to spin off his security

827
00:32:12,830 --> 00:32:11,399
clearance he was traveling overseas and

828
00:32:14,389 --> 00:32:12,840
took him back didn't find out until the

829
00:32:17,690 --> 00:32:14,399
21st of December

830
00:32:18,950 --> 00:32:17,700
he was given one day to decide so you're

831
00:32:20,630 --> 00:32:18,960
going to fight it or he's going to walk

832
00:32:22,730 --> 00:32:20,640
away

833
00:32:24,909 --> 00:32:22,740
and um

834
00:32:27,409 --> 00:32:24,919
a lot of people the new Oppenheimer

835
00:32:29,510 --> 00:32:27,419
advised him not to fight it they said

836
00:32:31,909 --> 00:32:29,520
you're just going to get mangled these

837
00:32:33,049 --> 00:32:31,919
guys you can't you know you're not

838
00:32:34,669 --> 00:32:33,059
talking about people you're dealing with

839
00:32:36,110 --> 00:32:34,679
a mansion you know These Guys these guys

840
00:32:38,630 --> 00:32:36,120
are going to hook up a mangle here you

841
00:32:39,830 --> 00:32:38,640
know if you get in this

842
00:32:41,990 --> 00:32:39,840
um

843
00:32:44,570 --> 00:32:42,000
Einstein was over the opinion he

844
00:32:46,490 --> 00:32:44,580
shouldn't fight it uh in fact Einstein

845
00:32:48,289 --> 00:32:46,500
had this same time Abby decided to go

846
00:32:50,570 --> 00:32:48,299
ahead and fight because because he sent

847
00:32:52,490 --> 00:32:50,580
him a letter the next day well within

848
00:32:53,810 --> 00:32:52,500
the deadline you know saying no no if I

849
00:32:54,950 --> 00:32:53,820
walk away it's going to mean you guys

850
00:32:56,870 --> 00:32:54,960
are right

851
00:32:59,029 --> 00:32:56,880
and I'd rather die you know than having

852
00:33:01,250 --> 00:32:59,039
suggested you guys are right

853
00:33:04,669 --> 00:33:01,260
and so he decided to find him and when I

854
00:33:07,250 --> 00:33:04,679
when uh when Einstein heard that

855
00:33:11,990 --> 00:33:07,260
his remark was

856
00:33:16,909 --> 00:33:15,110
is that he's in love with a woman who

857
00:33:20,269 --> 00:33:16,919
does not love him

858
00:33:22,730 --> 00:33:20,279
and that's the United States government

859
00:33:25,310 --> 00:33:22,740
that was that was his remark

860
00:33:28,130 --> 00:33:25,320
um so he decided to fight

861
00:33:30,590 --> 00:33:28,140
um and then check this out

862
00:33:34,070 --> 00:33:30,600
while that they decided to start the

863
00:33:36,409 --> 00:33:34,080
hearings in April okay so he had several

864
00:33:37,909 --> 00:33:36,419
weeks for her to get ready

865
00:33:40,250 --> 00:33:37,919
there we go

866
00:33:42,830 --> 00:33:40,260
um and during all that time

867
00:33:46,130 --> 00:33:42,840
surveillance was set up

868
00:33:48,830 --> 00:33:46,140
on on oppenheimer's uh Team on his on

869
00:33:50,330 --> 00:33:48,840
his attorneys on his defense team and

870
00:33:51,830 --> 00:33:50,340
everything they talked about in terms of

871
00:33:53,389 --> 00:33:51,840
preparing you know coherence and so

872
00:33:56,029 --> 00:33:53,399
forth was basically transmitted over to

873
00:33:58,430 --> 00:33:56,039
the other side you know to the uh to the

874
00:34:02,029 --> 00:33:58,440
attorneys for for the ABC side for the

875
00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:02,039
government side uh and so uh basically

876
00:34:06,529 --> 00:34:05,220
uh in other words we decide opposing

877
00:34:08,329 --> 00:34:06,539
Oppenheimer knew everything was going to

878
00:34:09,889 --> 00:34:08,339
be going on all of all the plans all the

879
00:34:12,050 --> 00:34:09,899
plans being made to defend them and so

880
00:34:15,290 --> 00:34:12,060
forth uh they would go into those

881
00:34:16,550 --> 00:34:15,300
hearings uh um with with the so-called

882
00:34:18,409 --> 00:34:16,560
webinar someone go in called the

883
00:34:21,050 --> 00:34:18,419
prosecuting attorneys they said it was

884
00:34:23,329 --> 00:34:21,060
not a trial that was uh Prosecuting

885
00:34:24,710 --> 00:34:23,339
attorneys were going to be cleared able

886
00:34:26,810 --> 00:34:24,720
to stay in the room they won't listen to

887
00:34:28,310 --> 00:34:26,820
anything brought in uh uh obvious

888
00:34:30,530 --> 00:34:28,320
attorneys would not be cleared would not

889
00:34:32,869 --> 00:34:30,540
have clearances would have to leave the

890
00:34:35,089 --> 00:34:32,879
room when any classified information was

891
00:34:36,889 --> 00:34:35,099
brought in which it constantly was of

892
00:34:38,810 --> 00:34:36,899
course

893
00:34:40,070 --> 00:34:38,820
um and essentially off East Side was

894
00:34:42,889 --> 00:34:40,080
kept in the dark

895
00:34:45,409 --> 00:34:42,899
now I'm telling you right now

896
00:34:48,889 --> 00:34:45,419
if that kind of thing happened today it

897
00:34:53,030 --> 00:34:50,450
okay

898
00:34:55,129 --> 00:34:53,040
all of the people involved in it would

899
00:34:58,130 --> 00:34:55,139
end up being prosecuted all right

900
00:34:59,770 --> 00:34:58,140
essentially the Hoover on down to the

901
00:35:01,849 --> 00:34:59,780
attorneys to everybody involved

902
00:35:03,349 --> 00:35:01,859
basically should have been prosecuted

903
00:35:04,670 --> 00:35:03,359
the same way the Watergate people were

904
00:35:07,070 --> 00:35:04,680
some of these people should have ended

905
00:35:10,490 --> 00:35:07,080
up in the slammer over this

906
00:35:13,130 --> 00:35:10,500
okay I mean it's just it's a disgrace

907
00:35:14,810 --> 00:35:13,140
uh but in the 1950s remember we're

908
00:35:16,730 --> 00:35:14,820
living in la la land you know in the

909
00:35:18,109 --> 00:35:16,740
1950s everything and they got away with

910
00:35:20,030 --> 00:35:18,119
that you know and so things just went

911
00:35:22,670 --> 00:35:20,040
right along

912
00:35:24,589 --> 00:35:22,680
um here's something revealing two

913
00:35:26,270 --> 00:35:24,599
decades later the chief prosecuting

914
00:35:28,250 --> 00:35:26,280
attorney from the APC a fellow named

915
00:35:30,170 --> 00:35:28,260
Roger Roth was asked if he would like to

916
00:35:32,150 --> 00:35:30,180
stand for the Supreme Court would you

917
00:35:34,250 --> 00:35:32,160
like to be nominated for the court he

918
00:35:35,569 --> 00:35:34,260
turned it down he said no because he

919
00:35:38,089 --> 00:35:35,579
knew

920
00:35:39,770 --> 00:35:38,099
that if he went if he let them nominate

921
00:35:42,589 --> 00:35:39,780
him he'd have to go through it through

922
00:35:44,569 --> 00:35:42,599
of course the hearings right the usual

923
00:35:47,990 --> 00:35:44,579
thing and when when someone's nominated

924
00:35:50,569 --> 00:35:48,000
in court and you couldn't survive it

925
00:35:52,010 --> 00:35:50,579
because all of that disgraceful behavior

926
00:35:54,050 --> 00:35:52,020
that happened during the Oppenheimer

927
00:35:56,510 --> 00:35:54,060
affair would come out

928
00:35:58,250 --> 00:35:56,520
in the process of vetting him for the

929
00:36:01,250 --> 00:35:58,260
Supreme Court and so he said don't even

930
00:36:04,849 --> 00:36:01,260
consider me that's very telling when you

931
00:36:08,150 --> 00:36:06,650
both the hearings went forward they

932
00:36:09,530 --> 00:36:08,160
started on the 12th of April they ran

933
00:36:11,450 --> 00:36:09,540
after the 6th of May it's about three

934
00:36:13,069 --> 00:36:11,460
and a half weeks

935
00:36:15,010 --> 00:36:13,079
um

936
00:36:17,270 --> 00:36:15,020
I've read through the available

937
00:36:19,550 --> 00:36:17,280
transcripts there are about a thousand

938
00:36:21,849 --> 00:36:19,560
Pages I've gone through the line by line

939
00:36:24,530 --> 00:36:21,859
word by word comma

940
00:36:26,150 --> 00:36:24,540
that's only a small portion of the

941
00:36:27,770 --> 00:36:26,160
original documents the rest is still

942
00:36:29,690 --> 00:36:27,780
classified

943
00:36:31,370 --> 00:36:29,700
okay

944
00:36:35,030 --> 00:36:31,380
um

945
00:36:36,470 --> 00:36:35,040
in the end uh he did not succeed the

946
00:36:39,170 --> 00:36:36,480
security board there refused to

947
00:36:41,810 --> 00:36:39,180
reinstate his clearance and basically he

948
00:36:42,890 --> 00:36:41,820
was uh sent back to the Princeton and

949
00:36:43,970 --> 00:36:42,900
was never to work for the government

950
00:36:46,790 --> 00:36:43,980
again

951
00:36:49,490 --> 00:36:46,800
okay see the thing is in his field you

952
00:36:51,890 --> 00:36:49,500
you take somebody's clearance away

953
00:36:53,450 --> 00:36:51,900
they're finished

954
00:36:54,829 --> 00:36:53,460
finished I mean you know what are you

955
00:36:56,210 --> 00:36:54,839
going to do go make atomic bombs for

956
00:36:57,770 --> 00:36:56,220
General Electric

957
00:36:58,970 --> 00:36:57,780
you know if you're not making nuclear

958
00:37:00,290 --> 00:36:58,980
weapons from the government you know

959
00:37:01,609 --> 00:37:00,300
you're not making it for anybody you

960
00:37:02,870 --> 00:37:01,619
know so of course he was done he was

961
00:37:04,730 --> 00:37:02,880
finished when he took the clearance away

962
00:37:06,589 --> 00:37:04,740
and he failed to get it back

963
00:37:08,510 --> 00:37:06,599
let's talk about the real reasons why it

964
00:37:11,030 --> 00:37:08,520
didn't happen

965
00:37:13,069 --> 00:37:11,040
oddly enough the real reasons begin in

966
00:37:15,109 --> 00:37:13,079
Canada

967
00:37:17,270 --> 00:37:15,119
um

968
00:37:18,650 --> 00:37:17,280
there's a fellow named Wilbert Smith he

969
00:37:21,589 --> 00:37:18,660
was an engineer a radio engineer

970
00:37:23,150 --> 00:37:21,599
actually uh and uh it all revolves

971
00:37:24,950 --> 00:37:23,160
around what I call the SSS

972
00:37:27,650 --> 00:37:24,960
correspondence because all the people's

973
00:37:29,089 --> 00:37:27,660
names having to start with us and that

974
00:37:31,089 --> 00:37:29,099
would be Wilbert Smith and a fellow

975
00:37:34,430 --> 00:37:31,099
named sarbacher and Philippine steinheim

976
00:37:35,750 --> 00:37:34,440
uh Smith was a senior radio engineer for

977
00:37:37,490 --> 00:37:35,760
what was later called Canada's

978
00:37:39,770 --> 00:37:37,500
Department Communications he had the

979
00:37:42,050 --> 00:37:39,780
protea the information he had access to

980
00:37:44,930 --> 00:37:42,060
classified information

981
00:37:46,970 --> 00:37:44,940
um and on the 21st of November 1950 he

982
00:37:48,190 --> 00:37:46,980
wrote a top secret memo to the Canadian

983
00:37:50,870 --> 00:37:48,200
government

984
00:37:53,270 --> 00:37:50,880
suggesting urging them that they ought

985
00:37:57,650 --> 00:37:53,280
to have a program studying the possible

986
00:37:59,630 --> 00:37:57,660
magnetic propulsion capabilities of UFOs

987
00:38:02,390 --> 00:37:59,640
because there was some suspicion that

988
00:38:04,190 --> 00:38:02,400
some UFOs used you know magnetic systems

989
00:38:05,450 --> 00:38:04,200
for compulsion

990
00:38:08,569 --> 00:38:05,460
um

991
00:38:10,370 --> 00:38:08,579
the Canadian government said yes

992
00:38:13,069 --> 00:38:10,380
they accepted the idea they put him in

993
00:38:16,010 --> 00:38:13,079
charge and essentially uh for four years

994
00:38:17,690 --> 00:38:16,020
he was in charge of that program and the

995
00:38:21,230 --> 00:38:17,700
Canadian government Declassified that

996
00:38:23,450 --> 00:38:21,240
original memo in 1978 you imagine that

997
00:38:25,430 --> 00:38:23,460
if that memo had been issued in the

998
00:38:28,069 --> 00:38:25,440
United States it would never be

999
00:38:31,970 --> 00:38:28,079
Declassified ever

1000
00:38:33,290 --> 00:38:31,980
so why can the Canadian government

1001
00:38:34,550 --> 00:38:33,300
remember what are they doing they're

1002
00:38:37,550 --> 00:38:34,560
admitting you know there's such a thing

1003
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:37,560
as a UFO we're interested in them you

1004
00:38:40,550 --> 00:38:39,119
know we think it makes sense to study

1005
00:38:42,589 --> 00:38:40,560
them and to look into the whole question

1006
00:38:44,569 --> 00:38:42,599
of why can the government of Canada

1007
00:38:47,750 --> 00:38:44,579
admit that and the government of the

1008
00:38:49,609 --> 00:38:47,760
United States cannot

1009
00:38:51,890 --> 00:38:49,619
I'm just asking

1010
00:38:55,130 --> 00:38:51,900
you know I mean certainly if they can do

1011
00:38:57,530 --> 00:38:55,140
it we should be able to do it too

1012
00:39:02,630 --> 00:39:00,410
but here's why that's important

1013
00:39:06,650 --> 00:39:04,910
in the original memo he said he said

1014
00:39:09,290 --> 00:39:06,660
there's a smaller group headed by a Dr

1015
00:39:11,109 --> 00:39:09,300
Fanfare Bush that is already studying

1016
00:39:13,510 --> 00:39:11,119
propulsion citizens in the United States

1017
00:39:16,609 --> 00:39:13,520
UFO propulsion

1018
00:39:19,430 --> 00:39:16,619
because and here's why that was uh

1019
00:39:22,849 --> 00:39:19,440
before actually issuing kanama Wilbur

1020
00:39:23,870 --> 00:39:22,859
Smith traveled uh to to Washington and

1021
00:39:25,670 --> 00:39:23,880
met with a fellow named Robert

1022
00:39:28,310 --> 00:39:25,680
starbucker

1023
00:39:31,150 --> 00:39:28,320
and the sidewalker was the Scientific

1024
00:39:34,250 --> 00:39:31,160
Advisor to the Pentagon

1025
00:39:34,910 --> 00:39:34,260
an office at Harvard

1026
00:39:36,589 --> 00:39:34,920
um

1027
00:39:38,569 --> 00:39:36,599
Smith met with him on the 15th of

1028
00:39:40,609 --> 00:39:38,579
December 1950 kept careful notes of

1029
00:39:42,349 --> 00:39:40,619
their meeting and here's something Smith

1030
00:39:45,170 --> 00:39:42,359
said a Starbucks I understand the whole

1031
00:39:48,230 --> 00:39:45,180
Social Services classified Sarah Barbara

1032
00:39:51,109 --> 00:39:48,240
says yes it is classified two points

1033
00:39:53,569 --> 00:39:51,119
higher even than the HR

1034
00:39:55,490 --> 00:39:53,579
in fact it is the most highly classified

1035
00:39:56,690 --> 00:39:55,500
subject in the U.S government at the

1036
00:39:59,390 --> 00:39:56,700
present time

1037
00:40:03,050 --> 00:40:01,370
um and then Smith actually used all of

1038
00:40:04,490 --> 00:40:03,060
that as ammunition you know when he when

1039
00:40:05,990 --> 00:40:04,500
he turned his memo in and I'm trying to

1040
00:40:08,210 --> 00:40:06,000
help to convince the Canadian government

1041
00:40:11,630 --> 00:40:08,220
yeah we got to go ahead with this

1042
00:40:14,990 --> 00:40:11,640
which they did okay in 1978 when the

1043
00:40:16,970 --> 00:40:15,000
memo was Declassified uh there was a a

1044
00:40:18,650 --> 00:40:16,980
very prominent well-known UFO

1045
00:40:20,150 --> 00:40:18,660
investigator named named Lynn

1046
00:40:25,730 --> 00:40:20,160
Stringfield

1047
00:40:30,650 --> 00:40:28,130
who got hold of Smith's notes and that

1048
00:40:32,150 --> 00:40:30,660
and that Declassified document and and

1049
00:40:35,510 --> 00:40:32,160
took them to a fellow named William

1050
00:40:38,390 --> 00:40:35,520
Steinman uh who was actually intensely

1051
00:40:41,870 --> 00:40:38,400
interested in the Aztec UFO incident

1052
00:40:43,849 --> 00:40:41,880
and uh Simon himself wrote to sarbacher

1053
00:40:45,770 --> 00:40:43,859
with some questions about the small

1054
00:40:49,010 --> 00:40:45,780
group of researchers

1055
00:40:50,930 --> 00:40:49,020
and uh sarvaka wrote back and said okay

1056
00:40:52,550 --> 00:40:50,940
you know the guard research is like that

1057
00:40:54,170 --> 00:40:52,560
these guys are looking at the crash this

1058
00:40:55,510 --> 00:40:54,180
all the time this is an ongoing thing

1059
00:40:58,069 --> 00:40:55,520
okay

1060
00:41:00,410 --> 00:40:58,079
he said the meetings of scientists like

1061
00:41:02,089 --> 00:41:00,420
that held frequently at the right field

1062
00:41:04,310 --> 00:41:02,099
in Ohio which was really called White

1063
00:41:06,710 --> 00:41:04,320
Patterson Air Force Base and some of the

1064
00:41:08,390 --> 00:41:06,720
people were John from Neumann who was uh

1065
00:41:11,150 --> 00:41:08,400
by the way a mathematician who was a

1066
00:41:12,890 --> 00:41:11,160
computer uh pioneer

1067
00:41:15,410 --> 00:41:12,900
okay

1068
00:41:20,750 --> 00:41:15,420
um and uh Dr Patterson Bush and he says

1069
00:41:23,390 --> 00:41:21,410
um

1070
00:41:25,010 --> 00:41:23,400
the fact that Oppenheimer seems to have

1071
00:41:26,270 --> 00:41:25,020
been at those meetings now keep in mind

1072
00:41:28,010 --> 00:41:26,280
we're talking about highly classified

1073
00:41:29,569 --> 00:41:28,020
stuff here and and for him to be at

1074
00:41:31,130 --> 00:41:29,579
those meetings at all require two things

1075
00:41:32,390 --> 00:41:31,140
he had to have the right clearance which

1076
00:41:35,650 --> 00:41:32,400
of course he had

1077
00:41:38,690 --> 00:41:35,660
and he had to have the the Eternal Watch

1078
00:41:40,490 --> 00:41:38,700
Need to Know Okay and the only way he

1079
00:41:42,290 --> 00:41:40,500
could have the need to know would have

1080
00:41:44,450 --> 00:41:42,300
been if he was or was about to be

1081
00:41:45,349 --> 00:41:44,460
involved in UFO retrieval activity

1082
00:41:47,150 --> 00:41:45,359
that's the only thing we're going to

1083
00:41:49,250 --> 00:41:47,160
testify as being in those meetings

1084
00:41:51,410 --> 00:41:49,260
believe me when classified information

1085
00:41:53,030 --> 00:41:51,420
is involved if they don't think you have

1086
00:41:55,370 --> 00:41:53,040
a need to know it doesn't matter how

1087
00:41:57,230 --> 00:41:55,380
highly clear you are how high your

1088
00:41:58,910 --> 00:41:57,240
clearance is you're not going to get in

1089
00:42:00,650 --> 00:41:58,920
you're not going to be told anything if

1090
00:42:02,450 --> 00:42:00,660
they don't think you have a need to know

1091
00:42:06,410 --> 00:42:02,460
okay

1092
00:42:11,450 --> 00:42:08,930
think about what happened in early July

1093
00:42:13,310 --> 00:42:11,460
1947 right here

1094
00:42:16,010 --> 00:42:13,320
the Roswell correction right put

1095
00:42:18,170 --> 00:42:16,020
yourself in Harry Truman's shoes

1096
00:42:19,970 --> 00:42:18,180
you get a phone call in the wee hours of

1097
00:42:23,210 --> 00:42:19,980
the morning

1098
00:42:26,450 --> 00:42:23,220
and somebody's telling you oh my god Mr

1099
00:42:29,210 --> 00:42:26,460
President this this thing has crashed

1100
00:42:30,589 --> 00:42:29,220
out of the desert and we don't know what

1101
00:42:31,910 --> 00:42:30,599
to do you know we're awaiting your

1102
00:42:34,730 --> 00:42:31,920
orders

1103
00:42:36,589 --> 00:42:34,740
well you know Truman would figure that

1104
00:42:39,589 --> 00:42:36,599
he had probably

1105
00:42:42,230 --> 00:42:39,599
30 seconds to decide what to do

1106
00:42:43,910 --> 00:42:42,240
you know and uh certainly of course he

1107
00:42:45,470 --> 00:42:43,920
would say okay the military's got to

1108
00:42:47,089 --> 00:42:45,480
come in military's got to court in the

1109
00:42:48,410 --> 00:42:47,099
area off and kind of Take Charge but

1110
00:42:49,910 --> 00:42:48,420
we're going to have to have civilian

1111
00:42:52,130 --> 00:42:49,920
scientists in here that would be almost

1112
00:42:53,210 --> 00:42:52,140
automatic I think

1113
00:42:55,010 --> 00:42:53,220
um

1114
00:42:58,010 --> 00:42:55,020
and what name do you suppose would come

1115
00:42:59,990 --> 00:42:58,020
because of mine early on I mean it's got

1116
00:43:01,730 --> 00:43:00,000
to be somebody already cleared because

1117
00:43:03,470 --> 00:43:01,740
they're not they're not about to listen

1118
00:43:05,569 --> 00:43:03,480
but not clear from Top Secret anywhere

1119
00:43:07,190 --> 00:43:05,579
near that side you know there's got to

1120
00:43:08,809 --> 00:43:07,200
be somebody who is a physicist probably

1121
00:43:10,309 --> 00:43:08,819
or a scientist of some kind of knows

1122
00:43:11,750 --> 00:43:10,319
what to do have to think about it well

1123
00:43:14,690 --> 00:43:11,760
of course I'm not really the Natural

1124
00:43:17,690 --> 00:43:14,700
Choice so I think we can assume that

1125
00:43:19,849 --> 00:43:17,700
Oppenheimer would have been asked to go

1126
00:43:25,849 --> 00:43:23,390
okay but uh there's even there's even

1127
00:43:28,490 --> 00:43:25,859
clearer reason to think that Oppenheimer

1128
00:43:31,490 --> 00:43:28,500
was uh was on hand at the at the event a

1129
00:43:33,589 --> 00:43:31,500
year later uh the the Aztec event

1130
00:43:34,670 --> 00:43:33,599
because we actually have witnesses for

1131
00:43:36,829 --> 00:43:34,680
that

1132
00:43:39,710 --> 00:43:36,839
witness is a based on the timer there

1133
00:43:41,210 --> 00:43:39,720
okay uh William Steinman wrote a very

1134
00:43:44,510 --> 00:43:41,220
important book called the UFO crash at

1135
00:43:46,790 --> 00:43:44,520
Aztec uh there it is now I got to tell

1136
00:43:48,829 --> 00:43:46,800
you about this book why it is and I

1137
00:43:51,650 --> 00:43:48,839
trust it

1138
00:43:55,450 --> 00:43:51,660
Diamond has a lot of witnesses

1139
00:43:58,250 --> 00:43:55,460
that he doesn't identify okay and

1140
00:44:00,109 --> 00:43:58,260
normally that would kind of run a red

1141
00:44:02,510 --> 00:44:00,119
flag up in the back of my head you know

1142
00:44:04,069 --> 00:44:02,520
I would think well wait a minute he's

1143
00:44:05,630 --> 00:44:04,079
saying so-and-so said this and somebody

1144
00:44:07,010 --> 00:44:05,640
said that and somebody said something

1145
00:44:09,050 --> 00:44:07,020
else but he's not telling him so many of

1146
00:44:11,329 --> 00:44:09,060
these Witnesses are you know that makes

1147
00:44:13,670 --> 00:44:11,339
me a little nervous

1148
00:44:15,170 --> 00:44:13,680
um but see the the four the forward of

1149
00:44:16,130 --> 00:44:15,180
this book was written by Leonard

1150
00:44:23,150 --> 00:44:16,140
Stringfield

1151
00:44:25,910 --> 00:44:23,160
was a very very very no-nonsense guy

1152
00:44:29,210 --> 00:44:25,920
okay

1153
00:44:31,430 --> 00:44:29,220
if Lynn's Stringfield had the slightest

1154
00:44:34,010 --> 00:44:31,440
inclination to think

1155
00:44:36,290 --> 00:44:34,020
that Steinman wasn't wasn't really quite

1156
00:44:38,390 --> 00:44:36,300
on The Mark with any of this

1157
00:44:40,910 --> 00:44:38,400
he would have said something

1158
00:44:42,710 --> 00:44:40,920
you know as a matter of fact he did

1159
00:44:44,089 --> 00:44:42,720
criticize time and usually usually

1160
00:44:45,589 --> 00:44:44,099
somebody writing a forward to a book

1161
00:44:47,510 --> 00:44:45,599
doesn't do that but he did actually

1162
00:44:48,770 --> 00:44:47,520
criticize something in the Fort Worth of

1163
00:44:49,730 --> 00:44:48,780
the book saying you know it really would

1164
00:44:51,290 --> 00:44:49,740
have been nice if you could have

1165
00:44:53,270 --> 00:44:51,300
identified more of your Witnesses I

1166
00:44:55,550 --> 00:44:53,280
understand you can't because

1167
00:44:57,109 --> 00:44:55,560
witness confidentiality as a sacred

1168
00:44:58,490 --> 00:44:57,119
trust in this business I know you can't

1169
00:45:00,349 --> 00:44:58,500
do it but it would have been nice if the

1170
00:45:02,270 --> 00:45:00,359
readers could have known who some of

1171
00:45:06,230 --> 00:45:02,280
these people were but the point is

1172
00:45:09,530 --> 00:45:06,240
Steinman did tell Stringfield

1173
00:45:11,569 --> 00:45:09,540
who most of the Witnesses were okay and

1174
00:45:13,430 --> 00:45:11,579
in fact Springfield not only you know

1175
00:45:15,589 --> 00:45:13,440
talk to most of them and actually chased

1176
00:45:17,150 --> 00:45:15,599
down a lot of his own Witnesses

1177
00:45:21,109 --> 00:45:17,160
so

1178
00:45:24,349 --> 00:45:21,119
very capable kind of behind all this I'm

1179
00:45:25,910 --> 00:45:24,359
talking about the Stringfield himself

1180
00:45:29,089 --> 00:45:25,920
um

1181
00:45:30,950 --> 00:45:29,099
okay basically here's what happens over

1182
00:45:33,530 --> 00:45:30,960
this quickly we're having an Aztec uh

1183
00:45:36,890 --> 00:45:33,540
radar track shows something down

1184
00:45:39,349 --> 00:45:36,900
um east of bastec uh a few miles uh

1185
00:45:42,230 --> 00:45:39,359
around 25th of March 1948 the message

1186
00:45:45,650 --> 00:45:42,240
went out to the secondary State

1187
00:45:47,450 --> 00:45:45,660
um and to uh 12 we'll talk about a

1188
00:45:49,849 --> 00:45:47,460
little later

1189
00:45:52,550 --> 00:45:51,589
the second big state I learned believe

1190
00:45:55,130 --> 00:45:52,560
it or not there was actually an

1191
00:45:57,829 --> 00:45:55,140
organization called the interplanetary

1192
00:45:59,329 --> 00:45:57,839
a phenomenon unit sounds like something

1193
00:46:01,849 --> 00:45:59,339
straight out of Science Fiction right

1194
00:46:03,589 --> 00:46:01,859
it's not because uh Richard Hall

1195
00:46:06,410 --> 00:46:03,599
actually validated this through a

1196
00:46:07,790 --> 00:46:06,420
Freedom of Information action request

1197
00:46:09,530 --> 00:46:07,800
um

1198
00:46:12,290 --> 00:46:09,540
they were based on a place that's later

1199
00:46:14,990 --> 00:46:12,300
going to be a CIA training base at uh

1200
00:46:16,790 --> 00:46:15,000
Camp Hale Colorado uh two things

1201
00:46:18,890 --> 00:46:16,800
happened the ipu dispatch the military

1202
00:46:20,870 --> 00:46:18,900
team to do the usual thing courting the

1203
00:46:23,050 --> 00:46:20,880
area off and keep everybody out you know

1204
00:46:26,210 --> 00:46:23,060
that's standard pretty much

1205
00:46:27,829 --> 00:46:26,220
and the object that was reported was a

1206
00:46:31,910 --> 00:46:27,839
dome of this about 100 feet in diameter

1207
00:46:35,089 --> 00:46:31,920
actually 99 feet in diameter

1208
00:46:37,790 --> 00:46:35,099
and I kind of commanded style outfit did

1209
00:46:40,490 --> 00:46:37,800
the military part but a

1210
00:46:42,370 --> 00:46:40,500
civilian scientist group was also set up

1211
00:46:45,230 --> 00:46:42,380
okay

1212
00:46:46,790 --> 00:46:45,240
there are witnesses to all this not only

1213
00:46:48,650 --> 00:46:46,800
to the fact that such a team would end

1214
00:46:50,829 --> 00:46:48,660
but to the fact that certain specific

1215
00:46:54,410 --> 00:46:50,839
people were on that team

1216
00:46:55,970 --> 00:46:54,420
they were sent in and and told look at

1217
00:46:58,790 --> 00:46:55,980
this stuff you know examine the hardware

1218
00:47:00,650 --> 00:46:58,800
the bodies and so forth uh founder of

1219
00:47:06,010 --> 00:47:00,660
bush would have the team up

1220
00:47:10,670 --> 00:47:08,990
Brock who was at one time president of

1221
00:47:12,130 --> 00:47:10,680
Johns Hopkins

1222
00:47:15,710 --> 00:47:12,140
University

1223
00:47:18,170 --> 00:47:15,720
uh some other people died bergner was a

1224
00:47:22,730 --> 00:47:18,180
Geo geophysicist and some other folks

1225
00:47:28,670 --> 00:47:25,550
um they assembled Airfield in Durango

1226
00:47:30,410 --> 00:47:28,680
Colorado some 35 miles by unimproved

1227
00:47:31,970 --> 00:47:30,420
dirt roads and trust me out there you

1228
00:47:34,849 --> 00:47:31,980
know somebody tells you roads are not

1229
00:47:35,510 --> 00:47:34,859
improved they are

1230
00:47:37,910 --> 00:47:35,520
um

1231
00:47:39,470 --> 00:47:37,920
north of the site and they went uh to

1232
00:47:41,809 --> 00:47:39,480
the place that was carted off they found

1233
00:47:43,809 --> 00:47:41,819
shark bodies which Dr brockett's now

1234
00:47:46,309 --> 00:47:43,819
that's what he was there to do

1235
00:47:48,050 --> 00:47:46,319
they found instrument panels with

1236
00:47:50,030 --> 00:47:48,060
symbols that often have a flower like

1237
00:47:51,530 --> 00:47:50,040
Sanskrit which remember is a language he

1238
00:47:53,450 --> 00:47:51,540
was familiar with

1239
00:47:56,150 --> 00:47:53,460
uh interestingly

1240
00:47:58,609 --> 00:47:56,160
those texts were sent they run like

1241
00:48:01,609 --> 00:47:58,619
plastic like Pages they were sent to uh

1242
00:48:03,290 --> 00:48:01,619
famous Krypton was William Friedman

1243
00:48:05,809 --> 00:48:03,300
and Friedman was asked to try to

1244
00:48:07,670 --> 00:48:05,819
decipher them and if he ever did

1245
00:48:09,170 --> 00:48:07,680
we don't know if he ever did the results

1246
00:48:11,390 --> 00:48:09,180
are classified

1247
00:48:12,710 --> 00:48:11,400
surprise you know could you imagine are

1248
00:48:14,450 --> 00:48:12,720
you classify him and telling you what

1249
00:48:17,870 --> 00:48:14,460
they said if anything happened that

1250
00:48:19,910 --> 00:48:17,880
stuff was classified and finally all of

1251
00:48:22,250 --> 00:48:19,920
that stuff was was shipped up to Los

1252
00:48:24,190 --> 00:48:22,260
Alamos Abby of course would be the

1253
00:48:27,410 --> 00:48:24,200
perfect person to have a hand to do that

1254
00:48:29,150 --> 00:48:27,420
oftenheimer knew the Los Alamos facility

1255
00:48:30,890 --> 00:48:29,160
like the back of his hand you know you

1256
00:48:32,329 --> 00:48:30,900
could have said you know drive down this

1257
00:48:34,190 --> 00:48:32,339
island turn right here go to this

1258
00:48:36,050 --> 00:48:34,200
loading loading document I want to do

1259
00:48:38,930 --> 00:48:36,060
exactly this and that's what you know

1260
00:48:40,910 --> 00:48:38,940
often I renewed that site really well

1261
00:48:43,130 --> 00:48:40,920
um

1262
00:48:46,010 --> 00:48:43,140
and as I said Stringfield found its own

1263
00:48:47,630 --> 00:48:46,020
Witnesses including a prominent Air

1264
00:48:49,609 --> 00:48:47,640
Force officer who didn't end up getting

1265
00:48:51,410 --> 00:48:49,619
identified that everybody said that

1266
00:48:53,329 --> 00:48:51,420
everybody would be stupefied if they

1267
00:48:55,130 --> 00:48:53,339
knew who it was

1268
00:48:58,130 --> 00:48:55,140
um

1269
00:49:00,530 --> 00:48:58,140
another kind of secondary witness said

1270
00:49:02,750 --> 00:49:00,540
that there had been a propulsion system

1271
00:49:04,550 --> 00:49:02,760
at Aztec

1272
00:49:07,069 --> 00:49:04,560
that

1273
00:49:08,630 --> 00:49:07,079
if made known generally then there was a

1274
00:49:11,450 --> 00:49:08,640
fisting were actually just given over to

1275
00:49:14,630 --> 00:49:11,460
the world uh basically uh they would

1276
00:49:16,609 --> 00:49:14,640
destroy oil and be obsolete

1277
00:49:19,490 --> 00:49:16,619
the internal combustion engine would be

1278
00:49:23,870 --> 00:49:19,500
obsolete the difference it is anyway the

1279
00:49:25,790 --> 00:49:23,880
the oil would just be a a comic memory

1280
00:49:27,349 --> 00:49:25,800
okay basically they said if you had this

1281
00:49:29,710 --> 00:49:27,359
kind of propulsion system you wouldn't

1282
00:49:32,170 --> 00:49:29,720
need anything else and you can imagine

1283
00:49:36,050 --> 00:49:32,180
oppenheimer's eyes lagging up at that

1284
00:49:38,390 --> 00:49:36,060
oppenheimer's an energy physicists

1285
00:49:40,970 --> 00:49:38,400
this was a history of in our baseball he

1286
00:49:42,710 --> 00:49:40,980
would have looked it down for okay ready

1287
00:49:45,710 --> 00:49:42,720
to rock and roll you know we need to be

1288
00:49:47,630 --> 00:49:45,720
doing is actually chasing that down as a

1289
00:49:49,250 --> 00:49:47,640
way of powering the world

1290
00:49:50,870 --> 00:49:49,260
uh

1291
00:49:52,670 --> 00:49:50,880
and I think I got it in trouble because

1292
00:49:54,770 --> 00:49:52,680
there are people around it don't want to

1293
00:49:55,550 --> 00:49:54,780
do that

1294
00:49:57,530 --> 00:49:55,560
um

1295
00:49:59,210 --> 00:49:57,540
okay

1296
00:50:01,609 --> 00:49:59,220
right after the Roswell incident

1297
00:50:04,010 --> 00:50:01,619
President Truman decided they needed to

1298
00:50:05,930 --> 00:50:04,020
have a long-term group you know to both

1299
00:50:08,750 --> 00:50:05,940
the civilian and military people to look

1300
00:50:11,450 --> 00:50:08,760
over UFO related activities

1301
00:50:14,270 --> 00:50:11,460
and uh that group will be called mj-12

1302
00:50:16,309 --> 00:50:14,280
Majestic 12.

1303
00:50:19,790 --> 00:50:18,230
and uh there's been some controversy

1304
00:50:21,710 --> 00:50:19,800
about that uh there are people that

1305
00:50:23,089 --> 00:50:21,720
don't think mj-12 is legitimate they

1306
00:50:25,370 --> 00:50:23,099
think that all of the documents that

1307
00:50:27,230 --> 00:50:25,380
supported are bogos and so forth uh

1308
00:50:29,030 --> 00:50:27,240
Stanley Friedman and some others have

1309
00:50:32,450 --> 00:50:29,040
done some excellent work actually

1310
00:50:35,089 --> 00:50:32,460
authenticating all that I'm inclined to

1311
00:50:38,329 --> 00:50:35,099
decide you know with uh with Stanton uh

1312
00:50:41,270 --> 00:50:38,339
over this I think that mj-12 was real I

1313
00:50:42,710 --> 00:50:41,280
think it still is under another name we

1314
00:50:45,650 --> 00:50:42,720
don't know what that name is of course

1315
00:50:46,550 --> 00:50:45,660
it's classified as that was

1316
00:50:48,530 --> 00:50:46,560
um

1317
00:50:50,089 --> 00:50:48,540
and the people on that were pretty

1318
00:50:52,609 --> 00:50:50,099
impressive I'll tell you why I've got

1319
00:50:55,050 --> 00:50:52,619
asterisk but some of them

1320
00:51:00,290 --> 00:50:56,770
[Music]

1321
00:51:01,549 --> 00:51:00,300
Secretary of Defense James Forrestal who

1322
00:51:04,790 --> 00:51:01,559
died

1323
00:51:08,390 --> 00:51:04,800
in 49 uh supposed suicide not a suicide

1324
00:51:10,430 --> 00:51:08,400
murder that's a whole different story

1325
00:51:12,049 --> 00:51:10,440
um replacement General Ronald Smith the

1326
00:51:13,670 --> 00:51:12,059
other people were Nathan Twining who by

1327
00:51:15,950 --> 00:51:13,680
the way was almost certainly called to

1328
00:51:19,010 --> 00:51:15,960
the Roswell crash to him to look at

1329
00:51:22,490 --> 00:51:19,020
things uh General white Vandenberg Dr

1330
00:51:25,430 --> 00:51:22,500
Devlin Brock who's again a uh a

1331
00:51:28,670 --> 00:51:25,440
geophysicist study a biophysicist

1332
00:51:31,910 --> 00:51:28,680
Dr Jerome Hunter who was a

1333
00:51:34,309 --> 00:51:31,920
an aeronautical engineer at MIT

1334
00:51:36,349 --> 00:51:34,319
with the Mississippi Stars Mr Gordon

1335
00:51:37,970 --> 00:51:36,359
gray hang under that name we're going to

1336
00:51:40,549 --> 00:51:37,980
refer to it later

1337
00:51:42,589 --> 00:51:40,559
Donald mencell who was a professional

1338
00:51:43,809 --> 00:51:42,599
hypocrite

1339
00:51:46,130 --> 00:51:43,819
uh

1340
00:51:48,049 --> 00:51:46,140
what could I tell you this guy wrote

1341
00:51:51,109 --> 00:51:48,059
books debunking UFOs and served a

1342
00:51:53,089 --> 00:51:51,119
majestic 12. you know

1343
00:51:54,890 --> 00:51:53,099
um

1344
00:51:56,809 --> 00:51:54,900
General Robert Montague who was

1345
00:51:59,290 --> 00:51:56,819
associated with the White Sands Missile

1346
00:52:02,930 --> 00:51:59,300
Range a an accomplished mathematician

1347
00:52:06,410 --> 00:52:02,940
Lloyd Berkner was once head of the

1348
00:52:09,470 --> 00:52:06,420
uh the uh geophysical year project in

1349
00:52:11,329 --> 00:52:09,480
the late 50s very impressive people and

1350
00:52:13,130 --> 00:52:11,339
the reason why four of those people have

1351
00:52:16,970 --> 00:52:13,140
asterisk by their name is that those

1352
00:52:19,130 --> 00:52:16,980
four people were with Bob he had Aztec

1353
00:52:20,210 --> 00:52:19,140
okay

1354
00:52:22,069 --> 00:52:20,220
um

1355
00:52:23,809 --> 00:52:22,079
and again Courtney gray we're going to

1356
00:52:25,370 --> 00:52:23,819
refer to again

1357
00:52:26,809 --> 00:52:25,380
I'm going to kind of pass through this

1358
00:52:29,569 --> 00:52:26,819
because I've already kind of said who

1359
00:52:33,349 --> 00:52:31,250
there's the overlap those four people

1360
00:52:35,450 --> 00:52:33,359
you know were Advanced at the same time

1361
00:52:37,329 --> 00:52:35,460
off it ever was here's here's government

1362
00:52:41,210 --> 00:52:37,339
document that talks about a panel

1363
00:52:43,790 --> 00:52:41,220
convening to discuss UFO related matters

1364
00:52:45,890 --> 00:52:43,800
um there's Abby's name on it please

1365
00:52:48,650 --> 00:52:45,900
anybody wants to know who's was he ever

1366
00:52:49,750 --> 00:52:48,660
involved in anything related to UFOs he

1367
00:52:52,309 --> 00:52:49,760
was

1368
00:52:54,230 --> 00:52:52,319
and we get to the hearings remember you

1369
00:52:56,329 --> 00:52:54,240
know the the Yankees clearance and they

1370
00:52:58,370 --> 00:52:56,339
decided okay uh if you if you're willing

1371
00:52:59,270 --> 00:52:58,380
we'll give you a chance to try to get it

1372
00:53:01,130 --> 00:52:59,280
back

1373
00:53:02,630 --> 00:53:01,140
it sounds like some kind of a game show

1374
00:53:03,890 --> 00:53:02,640
or something when you put it that way so

1375
00:53:05,089 --> 00:53:03,900
you could get your clearance back it was

1376
00:53:07,130 --> 00:53:05,099
blinking though it's not a general

1377
00:53:09,470 --> 00:53:07,140
Camino it was a very grueling process

1378
00:53:10,750 --> 00:53:09,480
and everybody kept saying this is not a

1379
00:53:13,490 --> 00:53:10,760
trial

1380
00:53:17,569 --> 00:53:13,500
well I'm here to tell you yes it was

1381
00:53:19,010 --> 00:53:17,579
this was a trial it wasn't a trial

1382
00:53:21,349 --> 00:53:19,020
um

1383
00:53:23,390 --> 00:53:21,359
he walks in here's this board of people

1384
00:53:25,010 --> 00:53:23,400
whose Personnel Security Board uh

1385
00:53:27,230 --> 00:53:25,020
running the whole show and guess who's

1386
00:53:30,049 --> 00:53:27,240
sitting there chairing that committee

1387
00:53:33,890 --> 00:53:30,059
Gordon Gray

1388
00:53:35,049 --> 00:53:33,900
of mj-12 when I first saw that name I

1389
00:53:37,250 --> 00:53:35,059
thought

1390
00:53:41,990 --> 00:53:37,260
nah you know it couldn't be the same

1391
00:53:45,230 --> 00:53:42,000
quality gray surely not you know

1392
00:53:48,049 --> 00:53:45,240
and I checked it out and it was it is

1393
00:53:51,490 --> 00:53:48,059
the same guy and I can imagine going

1394
00:53:55,730 --> 00:53:54,049
you know boy am I screwed you know

1395
00:53:57,710 --> 00:53:55,740
here's here's the cardigan gray sitting

1396
00:54:00,829 --> 00:53:57,720
here he knows everything I've ever been

1397
00:54:03,530 --> 00:54:00,839
involved with with all of this highly

1398
00:54:05,930 --> 00:54:03,540
classified you know UFO crash retrieval

1399
00:54:08,630 --> 00:54:05,940
stuff and here he says pontificating

1400
00:54:09,650 --> 00:54:08,640
over my life

1401
00:54:11,329 --> 00:54:09,660
um

1402
00:54:12,890 --> 00:54:11,339
well the hearings were after three and a

1403
00:54:14,630 --> 00:54:12,900
half weeks

1404
00:54:15,950 --> 00:54:14,640
um as I think I mentioned the published

1405
00:54:16,930 --> 00:54:15,960
transcripts around about a thousand

1406
00:54:19,910 --> 00:54:16,940
Pages

1407
00:54:22,250 --> 00:54:19,920
there are tens of thousands of other

1408
00:54:25,849 --> 00:54:22,260
patients and stuff still classified

1409
00:54:27,230 --> 00:54:25,859
okay I I tried foil requests you just

1410
00:54:28,970 --> 00:54:27,240
get to run around they sent you from one

1411
00:54:31,069 --> 00:54:28,980
agency to another basically just kind of

1412
00:54:32,930 --> 00:54:31,079
Jerk it around when you ask for this

1413
00:54:35,329 --> 00:54:32,940
stuff

1414
00:54:36,530 --> 00:54:35,339
um The Garden Parade papers reside in a

1415
00:54:38,990 --> 00:54:36,540
special collection at the Dwight D

1416
00:54:40,790 --> 00:54:39,000
Eisenhower Library in Abilene Kansas

1417
00:54:42,650 --> 00:54:40,800
and if you go there and check into it

1418
00:54:44,270 --> 00:54:42,660
you're going to find out that gray has a

1419
00:54:46,309 --> 00:54:44,280
condition to contributing those papers

1420
00:54:48,950 --> 00:54:46,319
specify that the Oppenheimer transcript

1421
00:54:50,349 --> 00:54:48,960
papers be permanently withheld for

1422
00:54:52,970 --> 00:54:50,359
research

1423
00:54:56,089 --> 00:54:52,980
permanently forever

1424
00:54:57,890 --> 00:54:56,099
no one is ever to see them

1425
00:55:00,049 --> 00:54:57,900
why would that be

1426
00:55:01,670 --> 00:55:00,059
what could they be about you know what

1427
00:55:03,049 --> 00:55:01,680
could have gone on in those closed

1428
00:55:05,809 --> 00:55:03,059
hearing rooms you know that we're not

1429
00:55:07,069 --> 00:55:05,819
supposed to know anything about

1430
00:55:09,109 --> 00:55:07,079
um

1431
00:55:11,150 --> 00:55:09,119
the Eisenhower library's own description

1432
00:55:12,950 --> 00:55:11,160
because you can look up I mean you can

1433
00:55:14,510 --> 00:55:12,960
you can look you know in the card you

1434
00:55:16,010 --> 00:55:14,520
can log in here they are the papers are

1435
00:55:19,430 --> 00:55:16,020
listed you can't see them but the papers

1436
00:55:21,349 --> 00:55:19,440
of course are indexed the files and what

1437
00:55:25,430 --> 00:55:21,359
it says about them is series for the Jay

1438
00:55:28,130 --> 00:55:25,440
Robert caves in 1954-75

1439
00:55:30,109 --> 00:55:28,140
um an odd thing because he died and he's

1440
00:55:32,990 --> 00:55:30,119
67 I'm not quite sure what they did

1441
00:55:35,990 --> 00:55:33,000
about I guess it has kept on you know

1442
00:55:36,770 --> 00:55:36,000
keeping records on him after he was dead

1443
00:55:38,990 --> 00:55:36,780
um

1444
00:55:40,730 --> 00:55:39,000
has a sub series B that consists of the

1445
00:55:42,710 --> 00:55:40,740
quote PSP Personnel Security Board

1446
00:55:44,990 --> 00:55:42,720
hearing transcripts and has been drawn

1447
00:55:46,549 --> 00:55:45,000
in its entirety these transcripts

1448
00:55:48,650 --> 00:55:46,559
contain unpublished portions which may

1449
00:55:50,089 --> 00:55:48,660
relate to the National Security

1450
00:55:52,730 --> 00:55:50,099
I kind of have to wonder why that's

1451
00:55:54,349 --> 00:55:52,740
still true you know I can maybe see why

1452
00:55:56,329 --> 00:55:54,359
it might have been shorter went down why

1453
00:55:59,390 --> 00:55:56,339
is it still you know unless it's about

1454
00:56:02,569 --> 00:55:59,400
stuff that is still classified we all

1455
00:56:04,250 --> 00:56:02,579
know what kind of stuff that is

1456
00:56:06,589 --> 00:56:04,260
um

1457
00:56:08,569 --> 00:56:06,599
basically again my hypothesis is that

1458
00:56:10,790 --> 00:56:08,579
the issue at those hearings was really

1459
00:56:12,170 --> 00:56:10,800
the crash which people think it's

1460
00:56:13,790 --> 00:56:12,180
interesting when you read through the

1461
00:56:15,589 --> 00:56:13,800
transcripts that are available a

1462
00:56:16,790 --> 00:56:15,599
thousand Pages or so that if you if

1463
00:56:18,710 --> 00:56:16,800
you're thinking that way if you're

1464
00:56:21,530 --> 00:56:18,720
thinking okay

1465
00:56:23,809 --> 00:56:21,540
what they've really got to this guy is

1466
00:56:26,089 --> 00:56:23,819
that he knows about things classify two

1467
00:56:27,890 --> 00:56:26,099
notches above the h-bomb and he's got

1468
00:56:29,930 --> 00:56:27,900
some funny kind of personality traits

1469
00:56:32,809 --> 00:56:29,940
and some politics that we're not all

1470
00:56:35,210 --> 00:56:32,819
that crazy about and we really kind of

1471
00:56:37,130 --> 00:56:35,220
want to know should we keep him in the

1472
00:56:39,790 --> 00:56:37,140
loop should we keep him continuing to be

1473
00:56:40,430 --> 00:56:39,800
able to access information like that

1474
00:56:41,690 --> 00:56:40,440
[Music]

1475
00:56:44,329 --> 00:56:41,700
um

1476
00:56:46,849 --> 00:56:44,339
when you look at it that way a lot of

1477
00:56:48,349 --> 00:56:46,859
stuff in those transcripts sounds very

1478
00:56:52,309 --> 00:56:48,359
different

1479
00:56:55,190 --> 00:56:52,319
okay

1480
00:56:58,609 --> 00:56:57,109
it's too much to go into a detail you

1481
00:56:59,990 --> 00:56:58,619
know I'd urge you to please read my book

1482
00:57:01,849 --> 00:57:00,000
about it if you want to see you know

1483
00:57:05,089 --> 00:57:01,859
what what happened during those during

1484
00:57:07,970 --> 00:57:05,099
those that three and a half weeks but

1485
00:57:09,170 --> 00:57:07,980
um here's some here's some highlights uh

1486
00:57:11,809 --> 00:57:09,180
you know I'll be in his own defense

1487
00:57:16,130 --> 00:57:11,819
tonight ever haven't been a communist

1488
00:57:19,069 --> 00:57:17,870
all he said was I'm not going to work on

1489
00:57:20,569 --> 00:57:19,079
them I think there are better things we

1490
00:57:22,730 --> 00:57:20,579
should be doing but I'm gonna I'm not

1491
00:57:25,910 --> 00:57:22,740
going to work on it but you you want to

1492
00:57:28,849 --> 00:57:25,920
work on it okay that's your choice

1493
00:57:32,390 --> 00:57:30,650
at one point often I ever said at the

1494
00:57:35,150 --> 00:57:32,400
earrings look I've had a lot of secrets

1495
00:57:37,309 --> 00:57:35,160
in my head a long time

1496
00:57:39,290 --> 00:57:37,319
and of course that's quite true but I I

1497
00:57:46,630 --> 00:57:39,300
don't think people realize what kinds of

1498
00:57:51,829 --> 00:57:49,190
telling anybody about it and then didn't

1499
00:57:54,710 --> 00:57:51,839
tell them the names even when he did and

1500
00:57:56,510 --> 00:57:54,720
he said because I was an idiot

1501
00:57:58,730 --> 00:57:56,520
in other words he realized at that point

1502
00:58:01,010 --> 00:57:58,740
it wasn't a discretion it was poor

1503
00:58:02,210 --> 00:58:01,020
judgment and he admitted it that should

1504
00:58:03,410 --> 00:58:02,220
have been the end of it you know they

1505
00:58:04,910 --> 00:58:03,420
should have said well I mean that's the

1506
00:58:06,410 --> 00:58:04,920
only thing we've really got to complaint

1507
00:58:07,190 --> 00:58:06,420
against him that that wasn't the only

1508
00:58:10,250 --> 00:58:07,200
thing

1509
00:58:13,069 --> 00:58:10,260
nervous about him continuing to know

1510
00:58:14,329 --> 00:58:13,079
about you know why

1511
00:58:16,490 --> 00:58:14,339
um

1512
00:58:18,170 --> 00:58:16,500
Leslie Groves testified that Avi had

1513
00:58:19,609 --> 00:58:18,180
done a magnificent job as far as the war

1514
00:58:22,190 --> 00:58:19,619
effort was concerned and said I would

1515
00:58:26,270 --> 00:58:22,200
not clear Dr Albert Hammer today

1516
00:58:33,230 --> 00:58:30,770
what happened between say 1945 and 1954

1517
00:58:35,870 --> 00:58:33,240
I could think of a couple of things

1518
00:58:37,910 --> 00:58:35,880
the rise will crash the Aztec incident

1519
00:58:40,190 --> 00:58:37,920
kind of announce one else

1520
00:58:41,150 --> 00:58:40,200
you have certainly

1521
00:58:43,609 --> 00:58:41,160
um

1522
00:58:45,410 --> 00:58:43,619
General Grove's whole thinking about he

1523
00:58:46,910 --> 00:58:45,420
had turned around 180 degrees over that

1524
00:58:48,470 --> 00:58:46,920
period somehow

1525
00:58:49,849 --> 00:58:48,480
although you know you can't find

1526
00:58:51,589 --> 00:58:49,859
anything that I've never did wrong

1527
00:58:54,230 --> 00:58:51,599
there's no reason why he should have

1528
00:58:57,770 --> 00:58:54,240
changed his thinking in that way

1529
00:59:03,109 --> 00:59:01,130
here's something funny uh Roger Roth

1530
00:59:05,150 --> 00:59:03,119
who's the chief I call it prosecuting

1531
00:59:06,530 --> 00:59:05,160
attorney might as well call it that uh

1532
00:59:07,849 --> 00:59:06,540
ask Oppenheimer in the middle of the

1533
00:59:09,770 --> 00:59:07,859
hearings would you have supported the

1534
00:59:13,549 --> 00:59:09,780
driving of a thermonuclear bomb in other

1535
00:59:15,950 --> 00:59:13,559
words an h-bomb on Hiroshima

1536
00:59:18,289 --> 00:59:15,960
um obviously laughed

1537
00:59:20,270 --> 00:59:18,299
and said uh

1538
00:59:21,890 --> 00:59:20,280
no it would have made no sense at all

1539
00:59:24,770 --> 00:59:21,900
and when they asked him why I said

1540
00:59:26,930 --> 00:59:24,780
because the target is too small

1541
00:59:28,490 --> 00:59:26,940
see if they could even ask him that

1542
00:59:30,349 --> 00:59:28,500
question they didn't have the famous

1543
00:59:32,390 --> 00:59:30,359
damned idea

1544
00:59:34,670 --> 00:59:32,400
what kind of weapon that is

1545
00:59:35,870 --> 00:59:34,680
you know and h-bomb's not a tactical

1546
00:59:38,089 --> 00:59:35,880
weapon

1547
00:59:40,849 --> 00:59:38,099
you don't drop an h-bomb

1548
00:59:43,730 --> 00:59:40,859
on a Machine Gun Nest okay you don't

1549
00:59:47,030 --> 00:59:43,740
drop an h-bomb on a bridge you know you

1550
00:59:49,670 --> 00:59:47,040
drop an h-bomb on a country

1551
00:59:52,309 --> 00:59:49,680
you know when they tested the ace bomb

1552
00:59:54,650 --> 00:59:52,319
at that bikini it made a crater in the

1553
00:59:58,549 --> 00:59:54,660
nation in the ocean floor 20 miles

1554
01:00:01,069 --> 00:59:58,559
across and a mile deep even with a mile

1555
01:00:03,650 --> 01:00:01,079
and a half of water the cushioned it

1556
01:00:05,750 --> 01:00:03,660
you know that's a tactical level you

1557
01:00:07,370 --> 01:00:05,760
know and I were basically they said you

1558
01:00:09,109 --> 01:00:07,380
know you'd even asked me a question like

1559
01:00:11,089 --> 01:00:09,119
that you have to be an idiot you know

1560
01:00:13,849 --> 01:00:11,099
you have to have no idea what kind of

1561
01:00:16,789 --> 01:00:13,859
weapon we're talking about

1562
01:00:22,430 --> 01:00:19,069
um Avi also referred to quote a great

1563
01:00:24,650 --> 01:00:22,440
deal that happens between 45 and 49 I am

1564
01:00:26,390 --> 01:00:24,660
not as close to say to what extent

1565
01:00:27,589 --> 01:00:26,400
we're going to think we can all all

1566
01:00:30,890 --> 01:00:27,599
think of things that happened between

1567
01:00:31,490 --> 01:00:30,900
1945 and 1949.

1568
01:00:33,950 --> 01:00:31,500
um

1569
01:00:35,270 --> 01:00:33,960
has Becca testified on off his behalf

1570
01:00:37,309 --> 01:00:35,280
saying that has been a very

1571
01:00:38,930 --> 01:00:37,319
security-minded loyal especially given

1572
01:00:41,089 --> 01:00:38,940
the scientists don't always think that

1573
01:00:42,589 --> 01:00:41,099
way so it's kind of actually a plus you

1574
01:00:44,210 --> 01:00:42,599
know that Bob and I were always did and

1575
01:00:47,150 --> 01:00:44,220
always did think that way you know

1576
01:00:48,890 --> 01:00:47,160
security and you know first and so on

1577
01:00:50,630 --> 01:00:48,900
um naturally a scientists would see that

1578
01:00:53,089 --> 01:00:50,640
but not the number you know because it's

1579
01:00:53,870 --> 01:00:53,099
one scientist to another

1580
01:00:58,849 --> 01:00:53,880
um

1581
01:01:00,890 --> 01:00:58,859
okay here's the question you know if

1582
01:01:02,809 --> 01:01:00,900
basically the the Chevalier matter for

1583
01:01:04,609 --> 01:01:02,819
example wasn't any big deal 1943 but

1584
01:01:06,109 --> 01:01:04,619
notice you guys didn't keep didn't keep

1585
01:01:07,970 --> 01:01:06,119
up from working on the Manhattan Project

1586
01:01:09,530 --> 01:01:07,980
because of that 1943 then why the hell

1587
01:01:11,030 --> 01:01:09,540
is a big deal now

1588
01:01:13,789 --> 01:01:11,040
what's the deal you know of course

1589
01:01:16,010 --> 01:01:13,799
nobody could answer that

1590
01:01:18,530 --> 01:01:16,020
um Columbus University business I'm a

1591
01:01:20,210 --> 01:01:18,540
robbing testified we have an Avon and a

1592
01:01:22,250 --> 01:01:20,220
whole series of what more do you want

1593
01:01:24,289 --> 01:01:22,260
mermaids

1594
01:01:25,730 --> 01:01:24,299
basically we got Edge at the bottom of

1595
01:01:26,569 --> 01:01:25,740
the ribbon side around it what do you

1596
01:01:29,690 --> 01:01:26,579
want

1597
01:01:31,190 --> 01:01:29,700
you know uh North Bradbury the new

1598
01:01:32,930 --> 01:01:31,200
director of Los Alamo said that to

1599
01:01:34,130 --> 01:01:32,940
question the Integrity loyalty of a

1600
01:01:36,829 --> 01:01:34,140
person who has worked as hard as a

1601
01:01:38,809 --> 01:01:36,839
devotedly for his country has on Such

1602
01:01:41,930 --> 01:01:38,819
trivial grounds is against all

1603
01:01:44,450 --> 01:01:41,940
principles of human Justice

1604
01:01:46,010 --> 01:01:44,460
Dr veteran Bush now here's something

1605
01:01:50,450 --> 01:01:46,020
interesting remember a fan of the coach

1606
01:01:52,970 --> 01:01:50,460
was mj-12 okay so is Gordon Gray

1607
01:01:57,049 --> 01:01:52,980
the difference is Gordon gray was a hack

1608
01:01:59,210 --> 01:01:57,059
you know and and Federer was a scientist

1609
01:02:01,789 --> 01:01:59,220
that's the difference okay you know the

1610
01:02:04,270 --> 01:02:01,799
fan over Bush it was scientist sign one

1611
01:02:06,710 --> 01:02:04,280
side is evaluating another

1612
01:02:08,930 --> 01:02:06,720
and he said

1613
01:02:11,630 --> 01:02:08,940
um I worked with him on many occasions

1614
01:02:14,329 --> 01:02:11,640
on many difficult matters

1615
01:02:15,829 --> 01:02:14,339
boy I guess that's true one of the most

1616
01:02:18,770 --> 01:02:15,839
difficult matters of course had to be

1617
01:02:21,589 --> 01:02:18,780
the Aztec retrieval

1618
01:02:23,750 --> 01:02:21,599
in fact Bush actually became so adamant

1619
01:02:25,789 --> 01:02:23,760
about it that he told the panel here's a

1620
01:02:27,710 --> 01:02:25,799
man who's being killarried because he

1621
01:02:29,630 --> 01:02:27,720
has strong opinions and had the temerity

1622
01:02:31,670 --> 01:02:29,640
to express something what so far as to

1623
01:02:32,750 --> 01:02:31,680
say that you guys are not even very

1624
01:02:35,030 --> 01:02:32,760
bright

1625
01:02:37,370 --> 01:02:35,040
for agreeing to sit on this board

1626
01:02:38,809 --> 01:02:37,380
you know when the ABC asked you guys to

1627
01:02:41,210 --> 01:02:38,819
sit at this board if you had any friends

1628
01:02:43,190 --> 01:02:41,220
you would have said no

1629
01:02:44,630 --> 01:02:43,200
okay in fact if you if you want to

1630
01:02:45,950 --> 01:02:44,640
prosecute people for having their own

1631
01:02:47,930 --> 01:02:45,960
opinions and speaking then stop

1632
01:02:49,730 --> 01:02:47,940
Prosecuting me

1633
01:02:51,349 --> 01:02:49,740
that's that's how Vandever Bush came

1634
01:02:53,510 --> 01:02:51,359
across even though he had been Majestic

1635
01:02:54,890 --> 01:02:53,520
12.

1636
01:02:56,710 --> 01:02:54,900
um

1637
01:02:59,870 --> 01:02:56,720
and there was a lot of talk about

1638
01:03:01,970 --> 01:02:59,880
communism uh Kitty Oppenheimer actually

1639
01:03:04,609 --> 01:03:01,980
tried to explain it it's like talking to

1640
01:03:06,470 --> 01:03:04,619
the cat you know pretty much but she

1641
01:03:09,710 --> 01:03:06,480
tried to explain that you know in the

1642
01:03:11,569 --> 01:03:09,720
1930s we didn't have all this uh uh we

1643
01:03:13,370 --> 01:03:11,579
didn't have any cold war with the Soviet

1644
01:03:15,530 --> 01:03:13,380
Union or anything like that yet what we

1645
01:03:17,030 --> 01:03:15,540
basically had was a certain kind of

1646
01:03:19,849 --> 01:03:17,040
political thinking that did things like

1647
01:03:21,230 --> 01:03:19,859
favorably favor the underdog you know

1648
01:03:23,870 --> 01:03:21,240
that kind of thing and it was not the

1649
01:03:25,910 --> 01:03:23,880
same thing as being you know a Russian

1650
01:03:30,530 --> 01:03:25,920
double agent you know in the 1950s and

1651
01:03:32,809 --> 01:03:30,540
1960s you guys are talking as if uh sort

1652
01:03:34,789 --> 01:03:32,819
of social communism so to speak in the

1653
01:03:36,770 --> 01:03:34,799
1930s was the same thing as political

1654
01:03:38,329 --> 01:03:36,780
communism in the 50s and 60s it's not

1655
01:03:40,130 --> 01:03:38,339
the same thing

1656
01:03:42,770 --> 01:03:40,140
you know but nobody seemed to be able to

1657
01:03:47,270 --> 01:03:44,990
of course they did grasp it

1658
01:03:49,370 --> 01:03:47,280
but remember this is all about something

1659
01:03:50,329 --> 01:03:49,380
different than what it's supposed to be

1660
01:03:52,670 --> 01:03:50,339
about

1661
01:03:54,289 --> 01:03:52,680
remember anytime classified stuff was

1662
01:03:56,630 --> 01:03:54,299
brought in oppenheimer's people had to

1663
01:03:58,430 --> 01:03:56,640
leave their own and who knows you know

1664
01:04:00,170 --> 01:03:58,440
if we had that other you know good many

1665
01:04:02,089 --> 01:04:00,180
thousands of pages of transcripts we'd

1666
01:04:03,589 --> 01:04:02,099
probably read a great deal being said

1667
01:04:05,210 --> 01:04:03,599
about things that were not mentioned in

1668
01:04:07,970 --> 01:04:05,220
the published part

1669
01:04:09,650 --> 01:04:07,980
uh mathematician computer Pioneer in

1670
01:04:11,329 --> 01:04:09,660
charge of anonymous testify that obvious

1671
01:04:13,490 --> 01:04:11,339
like everybody else and he had to make

1672
01:04:16,069 --> 01:04:13,500
adjustments scientists were not used to

1673
01:04:18,589 --> 01:04:16,079
working in security situations where you

1674
01:04:20,930 --> 01:04:18,599
had to think about uh questions of you

1675
01:04:22,609 --> 01:04:20,940
know your loyalty and your your both

1676
01:04:24,589 --> 01:04:22,619
out of me to keep everything quiet

1677
01:04:26,990 --> 01:04:24,599
and so on

1678
01:04:29,150 --> 01:04:27,000
um and he said the scientists quote got

1679
01:04:33,789 --> 01:04:29,160
suddenly in contact with the universe we

1680
01:04:38,690 --> 01:04:36,470
to get adjusted to this Buck Rogers

1681
01:04:40,190 --> 01:04:38,700
Universe it's kind of an interesting

1682
01:04:41,809 --> 01:04:40,200
choice of words you know when you think

1683
01:04:43,010 --> 01:04:41,819
about it that's what I mean that's what

1684
01:04:44,750 --> 01:04:43,020
I meant before but it said if you read

1685
01:04:47,809 --> 01:04:44,760
back through these transcripts with in

1686
01:04:48,950 --> 01:04:47,819
mind that Oppenheimer had been in some

1687
01:04:51,049 --> 01:04:48,960
crash retrievals and that's probably

1688
01:04:53,569 --> 01:04:51,059
what this was all about a lot of things

1689
01:04:55,510 --> 01:04:53,579
do sound different

1690
01:04:57,890 --> 01:04:55,520
Edward Teller who was of course

1691
01:05:00,650 --> 01:04:57,900
pathologically jealous of Oppenheimer

1692
01:05:01,549 --> 01:05:00,660
testified against him

1693
01:05:03,289 --> 01:05:01,559
um

1694
01:05:05,809 --> 01:05:03,299
remember you know he was a good teller

1695
01:05:09,289 --> 01:05:05,819
was being grown to replace essentially

1696
01:05:11,150 --> 01:05:09,299
as the as the science icon and on his

1697
01:05:12,829 --> 01:05:11,160
way out of the room teller extent the

1698
01:05:16,309 --> 01:05:12,839
hand to Hopi and I'll be good shake his

1699
01:05:18,349 --> 01:05:16,319
hand teller says I'm sorry Opie said

1700
01:05:19,609 --> 01:05:18,359
well after what you just said I don't

1701
01:05:22,130 --> 01:05:19,619
know what you mean

1702
01:05:24,530 --> 01:05:22,140
when you say you're sorry

1703
01:05:26,329 --> 01:05:24,540
so if you mean

1704
01:05:28,910 --> 01:05:26,339
you know

1705
01:05:31,069 --> 01:05:28,920
uh William Elizabeth boredom who's this

1706
01:05:34,250 --> 01:05:31,079
psychopath in Congress who basically you

1707
01:05:37,549 --> 01:05:34,260
know wrote that letter about the uh you

1708
01:05:39,470 --> 01:05:37,559
know about about obvious uh being a

1709
01:05:41,329 --> 01:05:39,480
communist and being being you know in

1710
01:05:43,430 --> 01:05:41,339
touch with Russian agents so forth and

1711
01:05:44,569 --> 01:05:43,440
so on uh there was a lineup for some

1712
01:05:46,849 --> 01:05:44,579
reason to read the letter under the

1713
01:05:48,349 --> 01:05:46,859
record however even Courtney gray can

1714
01:05:51,170 --> 01:05:48,359
buy it

1715
01:05:54,530 --> 01:05:51,180
I mean it even grossed him out you know

1716
01:05:56,809 --> 01:05:54,540
Gordon gray said uh that is in no way

1717
01:05:59,510 --> 01:05:56,819
going to broadly inquiry of this board

1718
01:06:01,849 --> 01:05:59,520
so even even even even he thought it was

1719
01:06:03,170 --> 01:06:01,859
garbage which it was

1720
01:06:04,370 --> 01:06:03,180
um but you got to remember through all

1721
01:06:06,829 --> 01:06:04,380
this that the real concerns were

1722
01:06:08,569 --> 01:06:06,839
something else not not what everybody is

1723
01:06:10,849 --> 01:06:08,579
saying

1724
01:06:13,010 --> 01:06:10,859
the hearings ended

1725
01:06:14,870 --> 01:06:13,020
um a letter was sent to the general

1726
01:06:16,430 --> 01:06:14,880
manager Kenneth Nichols who was supposed

1727
01:06:18,109 --> 01:06:16,440
to just pass it on

1728
01:06:20,329 --> 01:06:18,119
that was his job just take the letter

1729
01:06:21,289 --> 01:06:20,339
look at it uh he did he rewrote

1730
01:06:23,569 --> 01:06:21,299
everything

1731
01:06:26,510 --> 01:06:23,579
he found new reasons

1732
01:06:28,490 --> 01:06:26,520
to not not recommend Avi including

1733
01:06:31,549 --> 01:06:28,500
things like things have to do with his

1734
01:06:33,049 --> 01:06:31,559
uh with his with his his character and

1735
01:06:35,210 --> 01:06:33,059
his behavior he wasn't even supposed to

1736
01:06:36,470 --> 01:06:35,220
tamper with those results he's kind of

1737
01:06:38,569 --> 01:06:36,480
like you know you go to court and the

1738
01:06:40,250 --> 01:06:38,579
jury you know it gives them the judge's

1739
01:06:41,930 --> 01:06:40,260
statement the judge makes a decision and

1740
01:06:43,730 --> 01:06:41,940
then somebody in between you know takes

1741
01:06:46,490 --> 01:06:43,740
the whole thing rewrites it or something

1742
01:06:47,450 --> 01:06:46,500
you know that's right man

1743
01:06:50,329 --> 01:06:47,460
um

1744
01:06:52,130 --> 01:06:50,339
and and he said that that better

1745
01:06:53,329 --> 01:06:52,140
Behavior was expected of somebody the

1746
01:06:54,170 --> 01:06:53,339
customer who had access to the

1747
01:06:55,910 --> 01:06:54,180
information of the highest

1748
01:06:57,710 --> 01:06:55,920
classification and remember what star

1749
01:06:59,930 --> 01:06:57,720
drivers said that was that was not

1750
01:07:03,109 --> 01:06:59,940
Weaponry where there was no military

1751
01:07:04,789 --> 01:07:03,119
information per se that was something

1752
01:07:06,950 --> 01:07:04,799
classified two points higher than the

1753
01:07:08,089 --> 01:07:06,960
age problem and it's on the words

1754
01:07:10,010 --> 01:07:08,099
right

1755
01:07:11,870 --> 01:07:10,020
so the schedule is passing along as we

1756
01:07:14,270 --> 01:07:11,880
wrote it and made remarks about avi's

1757
01:07:15,770 --> 01:07:14,280
character and veracity and at the end

1758
01:07:17,569 --> 01:07:15,780
they voted not to give the clearance

1759
01:07:20,809 --> 01:07:17,579
back and so he was basically out of

1760
01:07:22,010 --> 01:07:20,819
government service forever all together

1761
01:07:24,410 --> 01:07:22,020
um here's something that's never been

1762
01:07:27,289 --> 01:07:24,420
pointed out before I think I'm pretty

1763
01:07:30,109 --> 01:07:27,299
sure the first person ever noticed this

1764
01:07:32,089 --> 01:07:30,119
the Rhythm decision says quote a

1765
01:07:34,250 --> 01:07:32,099
government official having access to the

1766
01:07:36,109 --> 01:07:34,260
most sensitive areas of restricted data

1767
01:07:38,809 --> 01:07:36,119
and to the innermost details of national

1768
01:07:40,910 --> 01:07:38,819
War plans and weapons let's measure up

1769
01:07:42,170 --> 01:07:40,920
to an exemplary standards

1770
01:07:43,670 --> 01:07:42,180
I'm going to read that a little

1771
01:07:46,130 --> 01:07:43,680
differently and pause in the right

1772
01:07:49,789 --> 01:07:48,109
a government official having access to

1773
01:07:51,230 --> 01:07:49,799
the most sensitive areas in restricted

1774
01:07:53,569 --> 01:07:51,240
data

1775
01:07:55,730 --> 01:07:53,579
and

1776
01:07:59,510 --> 01:07:55,740
to the universe details of national War

1777
01:08:01,549 --> 01:07:59,520
clinics and weapons must match her up

1778
01:08:06,049 --> 01:08:01,559
okay either this is really klutzy

1779
01:08:07,010 --> 01:08:06,059
writing or what this writer is saying is

1780
01:08:09,170 --> 01:08:07,020
that

1781
01:08:10,490 --> 01:08:09,180
the most sensitive areas of restricted

1782
01:08:12,410 --> 01:08:10,500
data

1783
01:08:13,910 --> 01:08:12,420
and the innermost details of national

1784
01:08:18,950 --> 01:08:13,920
War plants and weapons are two different

1785
01:08:23,809 --> 01:08:21,650
I think we caught them

1786
01:08:25,970 --> 01:08:23,819
this is a Friday at slip if I ever stop

1787
01:08:28,309 --> 01:08:25,980
on

1788
01:08:41,570 --> 01:08:28,319
okay

1789
01:08:45,410 --> 01:08:43,370
um after the hearings often I will go

1790
01:08:48,169 --> 01:08:45,420
back to Princeton to run the institute

1791
01:08:50,329 --> 01:08:48,179
for advanced studies

1792
01:08:52,070 --> 01:08:50,339
um Louis Strauss

1793
01:08:54,050 --> 01:08:52,080
such as Sterling gentlemen you know

1794
01:08:55,249 --> 01:08:54,060
follow up in there and try to get them

1795
01:08:56,689 --> 01:08:55,259
fired

1796
01:09:00,229 --> 01:08:56,699
so if you you know you don't want coffee

1797
01:09:01,370 --> 01:09:00,239
to run the Institute uh Preston told him

1798
01:09:03,229 --> 01:09:01,380
to take a walk

1799
01:09:05,030 --> 01:09:03,239
buzz off you know we don't make any

1800
01:09:08,450 --> 01:09:05,040
advice from you

1801
01:09:10,550 --> 01:09:08,460
and so Abby stayed uh he didn't like to

1802
01:09:12,709 --> 01:09:10,560
talk about the hearings very much

1803
01:09:15,229 --> 01:09:12,719
um he once told a reporter hearing was a

1804
01:09:20,570 --> 01:09:17,030
um and a very interesting thing he said

1805
01:09:23,090 --> 01:09:20,580
there was a story behind the story

1806
01:09:24,769 --> 01:09:23,100
now the reporter did ask him of course

1807
01:09:27,169 --> 01:09:24,779
well what was the story behind the story

1808
01:09:29,749 --> 01:09:27,179
and Abby said I can't tell you

1809
01:09:32,390 --> 01:09:29,759
so see you see what this says about his

1810
01:09:33,709 --> 01:09:32,400
real character even after they dumped on

1811
01:09:35,329 --> 01:09:33,719
him

1812
01:09:37,430 --> 01:09:35,339
big time

1813
01:09:39,709 --> 01:09:37,440
he wouldn't disclose anything that he

1814
01:09:43,249 --> 01:09:39,719
wasn't supposed to talk about

1815
01:09:46,910 --> 01:09:43,970
um

1816
01:09:48,650 --> 01:09:46,920
in 63 President Kennedy invited from

1817
01:09:51,530 --> 01:09:48,660
White House to accept the Fermi award in

1818
01:09:53,150 --> 01:09:51,540
physics uh Kennedy was assassinated

1819
01:09:56,689 --> 01:09:53,160
before he could give the award out and

1820
01:09:58,790 --> 01:09:56,699
Linda Johnson gave it instead but um so

1821
01:10:00,770 --> 01:09:58,800
ticked off that Opie had won the prize

1822
01:10:02,689 --> 01:10:00,780
it was an Iowa senator who tried to

1823
01:10:04,630 --> 01:10:02,699
introduce legislation mandating that

1824
01:10:08,390 --> 01:10:04,640
Congress be allowed to pick the winner

1825
01:10:10,669 --> 01:10:08,400
can you imagine that

1826
01:10:12,650 --> 01:10:10,679
a bunch of half-assed lawyers you know

1827
01:10:15,229 --> 01:10:12,660
deciding who should get the Fermi award

1828
01:10:17,750 --> 01:10:15,239
it's like asking a toenail fungus you

1829
01:10:18,950 --> 01:10:17,760
know who should get as a bell prize you

1830
01:10:22,430 --> 01:10:18,960
know

1831
01:10:23,689 --> 01:10:22,440
I mean my God that even even in Congress

1832
01:10:28,250 --> 01:10:23,699
they didn't buy it you know they

1833
01:10:33,410 --> 01:10:31,370
up he died in the 18th of February 1967

1834
01:10:35,870 --> 01:10:33,420
just a few weeks short of his 63rd

1835
01:10:38,149 --> 01:10:35,880
birthday of throat cancer

1836
01:10:40,189 --> 01:10:38,159
at his funeral the Juilliard extreme

1837
01:10:42,470 --> 01:10:40,199
quartet played Beethoven C sharp minor

1838
01:10:44,990 --> 01:10:42,480
quartet number 14. and uh you know

1839
01:10:47,209 --> 01:10:45,000
pretty much an era they come to an end

1840
01:10:48,590 --> 01:10:47,219
and as usual with things like this the

1841
01:10:50,209 --> 01:10:48,600
logic is all wrong you know when you

1842
01:10:51,649 --> 01:10:50,219
look back over it that's the funny thing

1843
01:10:54,590 --> 01:10:51,659
about all these things that they do

1844
01:10:56,870 --> 01:10:54,600
cover-ups and deceptions and so forth

1845
01:10:59,450 --> 01:10:56,880
uh the logic number is product

1846
01:11:01,250 --> 01:10:59,460
it never is you know because they don't

1847
01:11:03,470 --> 01:11:01,260
really first of all they're not bribe

1848
01:11:05,030 --> 01:11:03,480
enough to get them right and secondly

1849
01:11:07,669 --> 01:11:05,040
they don't have time

1850
01:11:09,169 --> 01:11:07,679
you know if you spend a year or

1851
01:11:10,490 --> 01:11:09,179
something scripting everything you did

1852
01:11:12,709 --> 01:11:10,500
sure everything's going to be seamless

1853
01:11:14,450 --> 01:11:12,719
forever nobody's ever going to be able

1854
01:11:16,910 --> 01:11:14,460
to pick a hole in it they can never do

1855
01:11:18,770 --> 01:11:16,920
that so we do pick the holes we do pick

1856
01:11:20,689 --> 01:11:18,780
the holes in it and we can do that and

1857
01:11:21,350 --> 01:11:20,699
we do it

1858
01:11:23,030 --> 01:11:21,360
um

1859
01:11:25,490 --> 01:11:23,040
the notion that he was banished from

1860
01:11:27,350 --> 01:11:25,500
government because of his running little

1861
01:11:31,070 --> 01:11:27,360
tiff you know to tell her about the age

1862
01:11:32,330 --> 01:11:31,080
mom preposterous easily refuted the real

1863
01:11:33,970 --> 01:11:32,340
reasons of course was something else

1864
01:11:37,310 --> 01:11:33,980
altogether

1865
01:11:38,689 --> 01:11:37,320
the the the main logical issue of course

1866
01:11:41,990 --> 01:11:38,699
is it's okay for him to run the

1867
01:11:44,149 --> 01:11:42,000
Manhattan Project in 1943 but uh and he

1868
01:11:47,570 --> 01:11:44,159
was given a new cue cards in 1947 all of

1869
01:11:50,030 --> 01:11:47,580
a sudden you can't be trusted in 1954.

1870
01:11:51,649 --> 01:11:50,040
uh although I mean if you ask them well

1871
01:11:54,649 --> 01:11:51,659
then point to something as a reason

1872
01:11:56,810 --> 01:11:54,659
point to Something's done you know where

1873
01:11:58,370 --> 01:11:56,820
you that's why cancer trust them anymore

1874
01:12:00,770 --> 01:11:58,380
nobody could point to anything really

1875
01:12:02,410 --> 01:12:00,780
anything meaningful and of course we all

1876
01:12:05,870 --> 01:12:02,420
know what happened in between

1877
01:12:07,310 --> 01:12:05,880
uh in between those years and uh the

1878
01:12:08,810 --> 01:12:07,320
simple fact is they just didn't want him

1879
01:12:11,090 --> 01:12:08,820
in the loop anymore

1880
01:12:14,030 --> 01:12:11,100
you know

1881
01:12:19,370 --> 01:12:15,350
and of course there's another angle

1882
01:12:21,890 --> 01:12:19,380
remember that propulsion system at Aztec

1883
01:12:24,350 --> 01:12:21,900
if Bobby had actually been allowed to

1884
01:12:26,750 --> 01:12:24,360
pick up on that I'd say okay let's

1885
01:12:29,390 --> 01:12:26,760
really make the internal combustion

1886
01:12:31,669 --> 01:12:29,400
engine obsolete which it really is

1887
01:12:33,649 --> 01:12:31,679
anyway and let's let's uh just tell the

1888
01:12:36,709 --> 01:12:33,659
oil companies learn to do something new

1889
01:12:38,630 --> 01:12:36,719
or move over

1890
01:12:40,250 --> 01:12:38,640
should they be able to

1891
01:12:41,330 --> 01:12:40,260
I don't have any respect for them if

1892
01:12:42,770 --> 01:12:41,340
they can't

1893
01:12:44,750 --> 01:12:42,780
you know it's been done before you know

1894
01:12:47,030 --> 01:12:44,760
what happened when when slide rolls went

1895
01:12:48,709 --> 01:12:47,040
out and little calculators came in the

1896
01:12:50,930 --> 01:12:48,719
companies that made slide Wheels started

1897
01:12:52,189 --> 01:12:50,940
making calculators that's the kind of

1898
01:12:53,870 --> 01:12:52,199
adjustment you make and if you can't

1899
01:12:55,729 --> 01:12:53,880
make it you should get out

1900
01:12:57,649 --> 01:12:55,739
okay that's the way I feel you know

1901
01:12:59,209 --> 01:12:57,659
about that and and essentially if he'd

1902
01:13:01,669 --> 01:12:59,219
been asked if he'd been able to actually

1903
01:13:03,470 --> 01:13:01,679
take that new propulsion system and

1904
01:13:06,290 --> 01:13:03,480
really run with it the way you wanted to

1905
01:13:07,910 --> 01:13:06,300
No Doubt uh there would have been Lobby

1906
01:13:09,830 --> 01:13:07,920
interests right there would have been

1907
01:13:12,050 --> 01:13:09,840
you know politicians bought by the oil

1908
01:13:13,430 --> 01:13:12,060
combination I would have said no no you

1909
01:13:14,870 --> 01:13:13,440
know we don't know of course he would

1910
01:13:16,130 --> 01:13:14,880
have been in a world of tribal agency

1911
01:13:17,930 --> 01:13:16,140
just for that

1912
01:13:20,330 --> 01:13:17,940
okay

1913
01:13:23,450 --> 01:13:21,830
I'm not really I don't have time to get

1914
01:13:25,070 --> 01:13:23,460
into this but the real irony is there

1915
01:13:27,229 --> 01:13:25,080
isn't an illegal basis for any of the

1916
01:13:29,090 --> 01:13:27,239
secrets that you know that I bet you

1917
01:13:30,470 --> 01:13:29,100
thought that there were laws about

1918
01:13:33,290 --> 01:13:30,480
secrecy

1919
01:13:37,729 --> 01:13:35,390
there's not a word in the United States

1920
01:13:39,470 --> 01:13:37,739
Constitution about keeping secrets well

1921
01:13:42,050 --> 01:13:39,480
I take it back there's one reference in

1922
01:13:43,729 --> 01:13:42,060
the Constitution that says each branch

1923
01:13:45,649 --> 01:13:43,739
of Congress can keep a journal which

1924
01:13:47,630 --> 01:13:45,659
they can withhold from public view if

1925
01:13:49,070 --> 01:13:47,640
they feel they need to as the only

1926
01:13:52,250 --> 01:13:49,080
reference of the whole constitution of

1927
01:13:54,410 --> 01:13:52,260
secrecy there's nothing in statutory law

1928
01:13:56,990 --> 01:13:54,420
there's nothing in appellate law about

1929
01:13:59,330 --> 01:13:57,000
secrecy nothing

1930
01:14:01,010 --> 01:13:59,340
okay where does it all come from from

1931
01:14:02,450 --> 01:14:01,020
executive orders

1932
01:14:05,630 --> 01:14:02,460
you go back and just look at something

1933
01:14:07,610 --> 01:14:05,640
like Clinton's executive rf12958 which

1934
01:14:09,169 --> 01:14:07,620
redefines what the top secret is what

1935
01:14:11,030 --> 01:14:09,179
secret is what confidential that's where

1936
01:14:12,649 --> 01:14:11,040
all this stuff comes from

1937
01:14:14,090 --> 01:14:12,659
it's just the executive orders and

1938
01:14:15,770 --> 01:14:14,100
there's nothing in the Constitution that

1939
01:14:19,430 --> 01:14:15,780
says that a president can issued any

1940
01:14:25,970 --> 01:14:21,169
okay

1941
01:14:28,850 --> 01:14:27,350
and when you think of what can happen

1942
01:14:31,250 --> 01:14:28,860
I'm just showing you okay now it's

1943
01:14:32,510 --> 01:14:31,260
somebody like Bob and I are it's really

1944
01:14:36,169 --> 01:14:32,520
pretty scary

1945
01:14:39,410 --> 01:14:36,179
somebody can be to use better for Bush's

1946
01:14:40,729 --> 01:14:39,420
term ignore read uh for for the kinds of

1947
01:14:42,290 --> 01:14:40,739
reasons given and the reasons aren't

1948
01:14:43,610 --> 01:14:42,300
even the right ones Republicans never

1949
01:14:46,130 --> 01:14:43,620
allowed to know what the real reasons

1950
01:14:47,270 --> 01:14:46,140
were that's really shabby when you think

1951
01:14:49,490 --> 01:14:47,280
about it

1952
01:14:51,649 --> 01:14:49,500
secrecy is a scary thing

1953
01:14:53,990 --> 01:14:51,659
now don't get me wrong there are times

1954
01:14:56,030 --> 01:14:54,000
when a secrecy is necessary

1955
01:14:56,990 --> 01:14:56,040
okay there really are

1956
01:15:01,550 --> 01:14:57,000
but

1957
01:15:05,030 --> 01:15:01,560
if secrecy is excessive

1958
01:15:07,970 --> 01:15:05,040
if it's not necessary

1959
01:15:10,250 --> 01:15:07,980
if it's irrational if it's duplicitous

1960
01:15:13,550 --> 01:15:10,260
if it's deceitful

1961
01:15:16,010 --> 01:15:13,560
then secrecy has the power

1962
01:15:18,050 --> 01:15:16,020
to make victims of all of us

1963
01:15:19,790 --> 01:15:18,060
and you know that might just be another

1964
01:15:22,430 --> 01:15:19,800
reason

1965
01:15:24,169 --> 01:15:22,440
to read some meaning into that verse

1966
01:15:27,709 --> 01:15:24,179
from the bhagavad-gita that was a

1967
01:15:33,050 --> 01:15:29,870
I am become deaf

1968
01:15:34,460 --> 01:15:33,060
the destroyer of worlds

1969
01:15:43,189 --> 01:15:34,470
thank you

1970
01:15:47,990 --> 01:15:44,750
uh do we have time for some questions

1971
01:15:49,250 --> 01:15:48,000
yeah okay any other questions

1972
01:15:51,820 --> 01:15:49,260
oh

1973
01:15:51,830 --> 01:16:03,229
[Music]

1974
01:16:03,239 --> 01:16:13,149
um

1975
01:16:17,090 --> 01:16:15,290
related to Lizzie Gordon you know maybe

1976
01:16:18,350 --> 01:16:17,100
he should have been

1977
01:16:22,910 --> 01:16:18,360
ah

1978
01:16:26,990 --> 01:16:22,920
she had an uncle called John Bennett

1979
01:16:29,990 --> 01:16:27,669
um

1980
01:16:31,850 --> 01:16:30,000
well yeah actually I was only joking

1981
01:16:34,550 --> 01:16:31,860
about him being related maybe to Lindsay

1982
01:16:36,470 --> 01:16:34,560
Gordon you know maybe he was

1983
01:16:38,510 --> 01:16:36,480
I know but yeah it could have been if he

1984
01:16:41,450 --> 01:16:38,520
wasn't he simply in spirit you know

1985
01:16:43,850 --> 01:16:41,460
because because he was a real weasel you

1986
01:16:47,270 --> 01:16:43,860
know he really was

1987
01:16:50,470 --> 01:16:47,280
questions yeah we'll see a German or a

1988
01:16:55,610 --> 01:16:53,630
was a non-practicing Jew

1989
01:16:57,110 --> 01:16:55,620
he was he was not religious he was

1990
01:17:02,870 --> 01:16:57,120
Jewish but at Birth his family were not

1991
01:17:07,669 --> 01:17:05,870
well ignore the questions then yeah the

1992
01:17:12,070 --> 01:17:07,679
one person in the Majestic club named

1993
01:17:12,080 --> 01:17:18,910
like did he come from here

1994
01:17:23,630 --> 01:17:21,290
or anything his family had been around

1995
01:17:25,189 --> 01:17:23,640
for quite a while uh he was actually

1996
01:17:27,770 --> 01:17:25,199
present I think I mentioned as president

1997
01:17:29,930 --> 01:17:27,780
of uh John Thompson's University for a

1998
01:17:31,669 --> 01:17:29,940
while and some other places and had a

1999
01:17:34,370 --> 01:17:31,679
very illustrious record in fact all the

2000
01:17:36,649 --> 01:17:34,380
people in Majestic 12 had track records

2001
01:17:39,709 --> 01:17:36,659
that were dazzling I mean those people

2002
01:17:42,169 --> 01:17:39,719
were very accomplished people my my very

2003
01:17:45,350 --> 01:17:42,179
strong guess is

2004
01:17:47,870 --> 01:17:45,360
um Truman would have needed to consult

2005
01:17:49,729 --> 01:17:47,880
would have needed Consultants to pick

2006
01:17:51,649 --> 01:17:49,739
those people I mean Trevor's the right

2007
01:17:53,149 --> 01:17:51,659
guy I remember very well I believe that

2008
01:17:55,790 --> 01:17:53,159
he was he was a bright Chef you know but

2009
01:17:56,930 --> 01:17:55,800
but he was not a scientist and I think

2010
01:17:58,850 --> 01:17:56,940
he would have needed to ask some

2011
01:18:00,229 --> 01:17:58,860
Consultants okay I'm going to put

2012
01:18:02,450 --> 01:18:00,239
together a group like that to look at

2013
01:18:04,070 --> 01:18:02,460
UFO stuff you know like what kinds of

2014
01:18:05,750 --> 01:18:04,080
people should be on it and some

2015
01:18:08,510 --> 01:18:05,760
consultant would say well you need you

2016
01:18:10,370 --> 01:18:08,520
need a biophysicist and some other

2017
01:18:13,430 --> 01:18:10,380
Consultants I know the guy

2018
01:18:15,530 --> 01:18:13,440
um you know that look Brock uh well you

2019
01:18:17,990 --> 01:18:15,540
need a uh you need an aeronautical

2020
01:18:20,270 --> 01:18:18,000
engineer I know the guy Jerome hunziker

2021
01:18:25,189 --> 01:18:20,280
you know and I'm sure that that that

2022
01:18:26,750 --> 01:18:25,199
that he probably lead on a Consultants

2023
01:18:28,910 --> 01:18:26,760
you know pretty heavily to put that word

2024
01:18:32,110 --> 01:18:28,920
together the question is sometimes

2025
01:18:35,390 --> 01:18:32,120
raised why wasn't opting on the group

2026
01:18:37,370 --> 01:18:35,400
and my suspicion is simply that the

2027
01:18:39,649 --> 01:18:37,380
advisors that were surrounding the

2028
01:18:41,270 --> 01:18:39,659
president of that time didn't trust him

2029
01:18:44,090 --> 01:18:41,280
that's my suspicion it's just a

2030
01:18:55,189 --> 01:18:44,100
suspicion that'll be my guess

2031
01:19:01,189 --> 01:18:58,130
maybe like at the earrings well just

2032
01:19:02,930 --> 01:19:01,199
wherever there was this Discord the

2033
01:19:05,229 --> 01:19:02,940
question is you know was there maybe an

2034
01:19:09,350 --> 01:19:05,239
element of anti sentence inheritance

2035
01:19:11,630 --> 01:19:09,360
and suddenly you know it's possible

2036
01:19:12,950 --> 01:19:11,640
because the logic I'm running from is I

2037
01:19:15,169 --> 01:19:12,960
used to work the whites Missile Range

2038
01:19:17,450 --> 01:19:15,179
back in the early 80s and they showed us

2039
01:19:18,709 --> 01:19:17,460
that some training films uh because I

2040
01:19:20,870 --> 01:19:18,719
was in the radiation protection area

2041
01:19:23,090 --> 01:19:20,880
they showed us some training films of

2042
01:19:25,250 --> 01:19:23,100
old old old footage of what's going on

2043
01:19:27,709 --> 01:19:25,260
with Southwest and stuff and they

2044
01:19:31,010 --> 01:19:27,719
represented him to be part of his

2045
01:19:33,350 --> 01:19:31,020
motivation for the mom was

2046
01:19:35,149 --> 01:19:33,360
the because of the knowledge of the Jews

2047
01:19:36,830 --> 01:19:35,159
in Europe and so that was thriving

2048
01:19:39,110 --> 01:19:36,840
behind him and forgive me if you shared

2049
01:19:41,570 --> 01:19:39,120
with some of this one well the thing

2050
01:19:43,430 --> 01:19:41,580
about it um about Los Angeles was the

2051
01:19:44,750 --> 01:19:43,440
people working in the Bible was out once

2052
01:19:46,370 --> 01:19:44,760
were scared to death

2053
01:19:47,990 --> 01:19:46,380
with the Nazis were going to get there

2054
01:19:50,209 --> 01:19:48,000
first actually did not see sporting

2055
01:19:52,370 --> 01:19:50,219
anywhere close to developing by the end

2056
01:19:55,729 --> 01:19:52,380
of the by the time they were out of the

2057
01:19:58,250 --> 01:19:55,739
war but that was a driving force

2058
01:20:00,229 --> 01:19:58,260
um it was it was common talk around the

2059
01:20:02,209 --> 01:20:00,239
camp you know from from Mafia and other

2060
01:20:04,850 --> 01:20:02,219
people hey you guys you know don't slack

2061
01:20:07,070 --> 01:20:04,860
off because for all you know you know

2062
01:20:08,689 --> 01:20:07,080
that that little psychotic prick you

2063
01:20:11,050 --> 01:20:08,699
know with the mustache you know it's

2064
01:20:13,550 --> 01:20:11,060
probably got a bomb like that already

2065
01:20:14,750 --> 01:20:13,560
we will have tomorrow the next day you

2066
01:20:16,130 --> 01:20:14,760
know if you don't if you don't get it

2067
01:20:17,750 --> 01:20:16,140
done and that was that was a real

2068
01:20:18,830 --> 01:20:17,760
driving force

2069
01:20:20,750 --> 01:20:18,840
um they didn't really have any way of

2070
01:20:22,610 --> 01:20:20,760
knowing that it was that they were gonna

2071
01:20:24,649 --> 01:20:22,620
that essentially

2072
01:20:26,270 --> 01:20:24,659
you know the the gnostics were not even

2073
01:20:29,209 --> 01:20:26,280
not even close to developing something

2074
01:20:31,610 --> 01:20:29,219
like that but it was a legitimate way to

2075
01:20:36,169 --> 01:20:31,620
think because for all you know they

2076
01:20:41,149 --> 01:20:38,750
the other comment I want to make is that

2077
01:20:43,790 --> 01:20:41,159
the steps I got from seeing those films

2078
01:20:44,950 --> 01:20:43,800
back when I was in my 20th right was

2079
01:20:48,830 --> 01:20:44,960
that

2080
01:20:52,310 --> 01:20:48,840
Oppenheimer was the first anti-nuclear

2081
01:20:54,410 --> 01:20:52,320
protester he did The Stance with it he

2082
01:20:56,810 --> 01:20:54,420
didn't want them dropped and I I just

2083
01:20:58,910 --> 01:20:56,820
spun it what I just said that if you saw

2084
01:21:01,070 --> 01:20:58,920
the potential the destruction the

2085
01:21:03,050 --> 01:21:01,080
annihilation and I think he read into it

2086
01:21:05,149 --> 01:21:03,060
more than we brought well yeah the thing

2087
01:21:06,850 --> 01:21:05,159
about the thing about looking at Abby as

2088
01:21:08,930 --> 01:21:06,860
maybe you know one of the first

2089
01:21:12,350 --> 01:21:08,940
anti-nuclear about people in the senses

2090
01:21:13,970 --> 01:21:12,360
that remember when when Truman asked him

2091
01:21:15,290 --> 01:21:13,980
and his colleagues you know should we

2092
01:21:17,330 --> 01:21:15,300
just make him make a show at this or

2093
01:21:18,350 --> 01:21:17,340
should we really drop it uh I think it

2094
01:21:19,850 --> 01:21:18,360
was one of the people saying we got to

2095
01:21:20,990 --> 01:21:19,860
really drop it well that's when we built

2096
01:21:22,729 --> 01:21:21,000
the damn thing you know we've got to

2097
01:21:25,669 --> 01:21:22,739
drop it because otherwise nobody's gonna

2098
01:21:28,669 --> 01:21:25,679
believe us you know then we can do it

2099
01:21:30,169 --> 01:21:28,679
yeah but Avi when they when teller

2100
01:21:31,550 --> 01:21:30,179
started raiding and ranting about the

2101
01:21:33,350 --> 01:21:31,560
h-bomb

2102
01:21:35,450 --> 01:21:33,360
poppy said well you know wait a minute

2103
01:21:39,050 --> 01:21:35,460
wait a minute I mean you know

2104
01:21:41,209 --> 01:21:39,060
you can't have a weapon like that unless

2105
01:21:42,470 --> 01:21:41,219
your intention is to wipe out an entire

2106
01:21:44,450 --> 01:21:42,480
population

2107
01:21:46,250 --> 01:21:44,460
and I don't think anybody has the right

2108
01:21:49,610 --> 01:21:46,260
to do that that might have been the

2109
01:21:52,610 --> 01:21:49,620
point that I was seeing there yeah

2110
01:21:54,169 --> 01:21:52,620
yeah but yeah but the thing is I think

2111
01:21:55,669 --> 01:21:54,179
it was very fair about it he you know he

2112
01:21:57,770 --> 01:21:55,679
told people about you know I'm certainly

2113
01:21:59,570 --> 01:21:57,780
not going to work on the thing but you

2114
01:22:01,669 --> 01:21:59,580
want to work on it you can square that

2115
01:22:06,590 --> 01:22:01,679
with your conscience uh then go ahead

2116
01:22:09,410 --> 01:22:06,780
yeah

2117
01:22:11,810 --> 01:22:09,420
[Music]

2118
01:22:13,550 --> 01:22:11,820
okay well if there were the questions I

2119
01:22:14,350 --> 01:22:13,560
will turn it over to Dennis for closing

2120
01:22:19,550 --> 01:22:14,360
remarks

2121
01:22:21,950 --> 01:22:19,560
[Applause]

2122
01:22:25,010 --> 01:22:21,960
can be done

2123
01:22:27,350 --> 01:22:25,020
this spring he's been into the hospital

2124
01:22:29,570 --> 01:22:27,360
2012 conference

2125
01:22:31,610 --> 01:22:29,580
first of all we want to thank you for

2126
01:22:33,010 --> 01:22:31,620
being here and supporting all the

2127
01:22:38,410 --> 01:22:33,020
speakers

2128
01:22:41,110 --> 01:22:38,420
myself we want to thank you

2129
01:22:44,810 --> 01:22:41,120
I think this is one of the best

2130
01:22:47,390 --> 01:22:44,820
locations in Roswell to do lectures uh

2131
01:22:48,830 --> 01:22:47,400
as far as comfort and the size of the

2132
01:22:51,530 --> 01:22:48,840
room and things like that and they thank

2133
01:22:53,330 --> 01:22:51,540
the Roswell Museum and arts center for

2134
01:22:55,310 --> 01:22:53,340
allowing us to be here

2135
01:22:56,870 --> 01:22:55,320
we help you and enjoyed your time here

2136
01:22:58,070 --> 01:22:56,880
we hope you've learned something while

2137
01:23:00,470 --> 01:22:58,080
you were here

2138
01:23:03,709 --> 01:23:00,480
and enjoy your visit while you're

2139
01:23:06,169 --> 01:23:03,719
in-laws well stay cool have a safe trip

2140
01:23:07,850 --> 01:23:06,179
back home wherever that is thank you all